Lord Strathcona Medal ... something new to propose

[ctjj.stevenson]

Good morning everyone (or afternoon in the Maritimes)!

Anyone that has the image of the Right Honourable Donald Alexander Smith, the Lord Strathcona on their uniforms will have something new to look up to. On Tuesday, I found something interesting that is being sold on the Kit Shop of the "cercle des officiers CIC de la région de l'est" (the Eastern Region CIC Officer Circle) (www.joedrouin.com) - a mess kit sized Lord Strathcona Trust Fund medal. The exact link to the accessories page is the following: http://www.joedrouin.com/ere_pins.htm. And here is the image:



Personally, I do not know why they are selling this, for the following reasons:

a) Miniature medal could only be worn on mess kits.
b) Cadets may not purchase a CF Mess Kit. However, they can wear a bow tie with the uniform, to make for of a mess kit. However, the rules are that only ribbons (not even the medal) could be worn with this dress, (just like CF members that wear number 2B dress to a mess diner).
c) Officers can not wear this because they are not permitted to wear cadet medals.

I would like to see some comments about this miniature Lord Strathcona medal. Could cadets actually be able to wear this, and if so, then Joe Drouin Enterprise should make a mini bravoury medal, a mini Royal Canadian Humane Society medal of bravoury, a mini Royal Canadian Legion medal of Cadet excellence, a mini ANAVET medal, a mini Navy League of Canada Medal of Excellence, and a mini Major General Howard Award medal (and if there exist any special medals just for the air cadets, those too).

Any NL officer who has the NL Service medal will be happy to see that Joe Drouin has made a mini of that medal too.

Lastly, I would invite everyone to look at Joe Drouin's website. They do sell some wonderful things here (like a sea/army/air cadet teddy bears).

Good day!

[N. McKay]

Originally Posted by ctjj.stevenson

Personally, I do not know why they are selling this, for the following reasons:

a) Miniature medal could only be worn on mess kits.
b) Cadets may not purchase a CF Mess Kit. However, they can wear a bow tie with the uniform, to make for of a mess kit. However, the rules are that only ribbons (not even the medal) could be worn with this dress, (just like CF members that wear number 2B dress to a mess diner).

Miniature medals are also worn for appropriate evening functions with civilian attire. A cadet could do that (wearing a blazer to whatever function, for example).

I don't know about army and air cadets, but sea cadets definitely can not wear a bowtie with any order of dress.

[ctjj.stevenson]

Originally Posted by SLt McKay

I don't know about army and air cadets, but sea cadets definitely can not wear a bowtie with any order of dress.

I know that it is not in the dress regs for Sea Cadets, however, I've seen it a lot at my time @ HMCS Québec, and during Tri-Forces Cadet Balls.

I know that when I was a staff cadet at HMCS Québec, during the staff ball, everyone tried to look as "hot" as possible. This summer, the coxswain of HMCS Québec, CWO Richard Boisclair, CMM, CD, did add rules to the dress for the staff ball and mess dinner. The cadets in uniform would wear ribbons and not their full medals. No one was permitted to wear webbing and Guiters because they were not on duty. However, I believe that they were permitted to wear bow ties with a white shirt.

I will try and ask Lt(N) Himbeault if anything will be written about this "dress" in the new uniform regulations that I believe that he is working on.

[big_castor]

I would like to see some comments about this miniature Lord Strathcona medal. Could cadets actually be able to wear this

Miniature medals can be worn on civilian evening dress (an equivalent "order of dress" to a Mess kit). Full size medals can also be worn on civilian clothing for formal events – the GG for example wears full size medals during certain occasions. (http://www.gg.ca/honours/pdf/wearing_e.pdf )

Nothing would prevent a cadet or former cadet from wearing a full size or miniature Strathcona medal while in civilian.

Joe Drouin Enterprise should make a mini bravoury medal, a mini Royal Canadian Humane Society medal of bravoury, a mini Royal Canadian Legion medal of Cadet excellence, a mini ANAVET medal, a mini Navy League of Canada Medal of Excellence, and a mini Major General Howard Award medal

Good idea.

(and if there exist any special medals just for the air cadets, those too).

We have the Air Force Association Medal.

[RyanForbes]

well at the Vernon Army CSTC this past summer, the Staff Cadet Mess Dinner we were permitted to wear white shirts with bow ties and cumberbunds, but we had to wear our ribbons

about this miniature medal, i think it is a great idea...i may even purchase one, if they get the rest of the cadet selection, and frame it with my badges, etc after i age out of cadets...it would take up much less room in the framing process

[ctjj.stevenson]

Originally Posted by big_castor

Miniature medals can be worn on civilian evening dress (an equivalent "order of dress" to a Mess kit). Full size medals can also be worn on civilian clothing for formal events – the GG for example wears full size medals during certain occasions. (http://www.gg.ca/honours/pdf/wearing_e.pdf )

Nothing would prevent a cadet or former cadet from wearing a full size or miniature Strathcona medal while in civilian.



Good idea.



We have the Air Force Association Medal.

You're right sir.

[Joe Dollis]

[quote=ctjj.stevenson]I know that it is not in the dress regs for Sea Cadets, however, I've seen it a lot at my time @ HMCS Québec, and during Tri-Forces Cadet Balls.



A number of my NCOs were Staff at NCSM Quebec this past summer and were REQUIRED to wear a collar shirt with bow tie for their dinner. What The Heck Is Going On Here????? As far as I know, Sea Cadets are authorized gunshirts or turtle-necked sweaters... either of which is going to look a little funky with a bow tie. EVEN WORSE: I have been reliably informed that the Cox'n of a local Corps (who shall remain un-named to save him from further shame) actually showed up at his Corps' Tri-service ball in blues... with a COLLAR SHIRT AND BOW TIE. Please please please can we have back the cat-o-nine tails... just for a day or two?

[ctjj.stevenson]

Originally Posted by Joe Dollis

EVEN WORSE: I have been reliably informed that the Cox'n of a local Corps (who shall remain un-named to save him from further shame) actually showed up at his Corps' Tri-service ball in blues... with a COLLAR SHIRT AND BOW TIE. Please please please can we have back the cat-o-nine tails... just for a day or two?

I actually saw the same thing at HMCS Québec in 1999. At the time, I guess that it looked good, but thinking about it, 6 years latter, it really does not look good. I could almost formally say that that "form" of dress does not even exist in the Royal Navy. Here is a link to the evening numbered dress page from the Royal Navy website: http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=1936 and an image of what you may find for a junior rate:


I've sent an e-mail to Lt[N] Himbeault (via the francophone sea cadet forum) to ask him about these "mess uniforms" worn by sea cadets. Once I get an answer, I will translate it (or may be not) and post it her.

Good day!

[N. McKay]

Originally Posted by ctjj.stevenson

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/rn/index.php3?page=1936

Interesting find elsewhere on that site: they've stopped wearing the high-collar white tunics in favour of a loose-fitting, open-collar, short-sleeved jacket that looks incredibly comfortable. My first thought was that it looked Australian -- I wonder if that's where they got the idea?

[ctjj.stevenson]

I did not even take the time to look at them until you wrote about it. I only have one thing to say... remind me not to join the Royal Navy. I don't want to every have to wear such a yaddy yaddy yadda uniform like that.



I like this a bit more ... however, without the creases on the pants ... come on now.


Well that's it for me.

[Bugler]

I'm just curious, where does it say cadets aren't allowed to wear mini's Iif the can find them) to a mess dinner? And cadets aren;t allowed ot wear a mess kit if they have it?

Also, I've seen non-cadet drum majors wearing mini medals on their DM sash, so that could be another use for it.

[JMcKay]

Originally Posted by Bugler

I'm just curious, where does it say cadets aren't allowed to wear mini's Iif the can find them) to a mess dinner?

There is no regulation prohibiting cadets from wearing miniatures, should they be produced, however, cadets have no order of dress in which the wearing of miniatures is appropriate or authorized.

Originally Posted by Bugler

And cadets aren;t allowed ot wear a mess kit if they have it?

That's an easy one, for army cadets:

Originally Posted by CATO 46-01 Army Cadet Dress Regulations

UNAUTHORIZED UNIFORMS

30. Army cadets shall not wear the following:

a. any form of CF uniform or cadet
uniform, past or present, not described
in this CATO;

b. any form of CF Mess Dress, past or
present;

c. badges of rank or insignia of the CF
other than authorized cadet rank and
insignia; and

d. locally produced corps, course and
exchange pins.

And I would imagine that the sea and air cadets have similar provisions.

[N. McKay]

Originally Posted by ctjj.stevenson

I did not even take the time to look at them until you wrote about it. I only have one thing to say... remind me not to join the Royal Navy. I don't want to every have to wear such a yaddy yaddy yadda uniform like that.

Well, it's better than people wearing 3Bs to a parade (in my mind, the rough equivalent of wearing a golf shirt to a wedding or funeral). The rig pictured above looks as if it would be comfortable in the hottest weather. Our high-collar white tunic is miles ahead of the blue one in summer weather, but leaves something to be desired for comfort.

[chrischu]

Originally Posted by SLt McKay

Miniature medals are also worn for appropriate evening functions with civilian attire. A cadet could do that (wearing a blazer to whatever function, for example).

I don't know about army and air cadets, but sea cadets definitely can not wear a bowtie with any order of dress.

It doesn't say Air Cadets can't wear bowties, BUT

Anything other than specified in the CATOs is wrong.

CC

[ctjj.stevenson]

You know what ... I don't think that I should be one to disregard the Royal Navy whites. I mean, if the Admirality office chose this as the summer dress of the RN, then I (as an Acting Subbie) should respect that decision. But SLt McKay is correct in saying that these uniforms do look comfortable ... and seeing that I have no comfort with hardly any of my uniforms, I guess that's a plus for it.

I would also note that I guess that I would not go to a wedding or a funeral in 3Bs. Presently, I did buy a white tunic from an officer who is a bit larger than I am, so I have to get it tailored to fit me correctly. But, if I had to go to a funeral during the summer in uniform, I guess that I would wear a 1A instead because it would seem like to proper uniform for the occasion. That is my opinion.

Finally, I got an answer from Lt(N) Himbeault about the future, up-dated CATO (I believe it's 33-05) having to do with the sea cadet uniform. He told me that there will be instructions in it having to do with a "mess-kit" type uniform for sea cadets. However, the mini medals will still not be permitted on any uniform. Therefore, we will have to see the real rules when it comes out.

[DA Wright]

Miniatures are only worn in formal civilian clothes (i.e. tuxedo). Full-sized medals are worn with business suit, blazer or morning coats. Nothing stops you from wearing cadet medals in civilian clothes after you cease being a cadet (though many would see it as tacky for a CF member). But, according to Chancellery policy, cadet medals shouldn't be worn with National Orders or Awards. The following website gives pretty good instructions on medals, and occasions for wear, and is the Canadian authority: http://www.gg.ca/honours/wear_e.asp

[life]

Originally Posted by RyanForbes

well at the Vernon Army CSTC this past summer, the Staff Cadet Mess Dinner we were permitted to wear white shirts with bow ties and cumberbunds, but we had to wear our ribbons

At Mess Dinners, are you supposed to have ribbons instead of medals if you don't have miniatures?

[CWO Wannabe]

Yeppers - you need to wear your ribbons. I didn't know that until this past summer when Major Reddy made me change my medals back for ribbons before the Promenade.

Unfortunately, it would seem that I was the only one that was wearing my ribbons. Everybody else was done up all pretty in their medals.

[RyanForbes]

Originally Posted by CWO Wannabe

Yeppers - you need to wear your ribbons. I didn't know that until this past summer when Major Reddy made me change my medals back for ribbons before the Promenade.

Unfortunately, it would seem that I was the only one that was wearing my ribbons. Everybody else was done up all pretty in their medals.

not quite true...almost everyone i saw had run back to their barracks and grabbed their ribbons...i heard about it and quickly grabbed mine and Dustin Bauch's too for him, so he wouldnt get in trouble

[CWO Wannabe]

Thank god I wasn't alone!!