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  1. #1
    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Rifle spinning and tricks/tosses and such

    I personally have been doing rifle spinning/tosses/tricks for almost 5 months and find it really fun , challenging and just plain out awesome

    So I was wondering everyones opinions on this


    Yes i know its not officially allowed but still put that factor aside and give a real honest opinion please.

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    dkelly is on a distinguished road dkelly's Avatar
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    i think that it is good for exhibitions, and i used some when i was commanding my silent rifle team for our Annual Review, so i think that even though it is not proper, "Monkey Drill" can be fun, and a good way to entertain a crowd
    CWO Kelly
    Ret. Training WO at 2918 Essex and Kent Scottish Army Cadet Corps
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  3. #3
    dhillon will become famous soon enough dhillon's Avatar
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    It was featured in an edition of Cadence magazine some time ago. I recall that sparking debate on the forums and across the Cadet world.

    Personally, I believe it's a great way to increase retention and have some fun but only until someone makes a mistake and gets seriously hurt or damages the rifle being used. If conducted, my personal opinion is that an individual should practice it until they are fully competent in doing it safely. Never EVER to be done with a functional weapon, only ever a drill purpose (of course) and even then, I know those that would cringe at the sight of a Lee Enfield being thrown around, DP rifle or not. If doing "monkey drill", it would be nice if the rifles used were a different style, similar to the ones used by the US. Our Navy League has a bunch. They are white.


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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dhillon View Post
    It was featured in an edition of Cadence magazine some time ago. I recall that sparking debate on the forums and across the Cadet world.

    Personally, I believe it's a great way to increase retention and have some fun but only until someone makes a mistake and gets seriously hurt or damages the rifle being used. If conducted, my personal opinion is that an individual should practice it until they are fully competent in doing it safely. Never EVER to be done with a functional weapon, only ever a drill purpose (of course) and even then, I know those that would cringe at the sight of a Lee Enfield being thrown around, DP rifle or not. If doing "monkey drill", it would be nice if the rifles used were a different style, similar to the ones used by the US. Our Navy League has a bunch. They are white.
    But...but...but...that's monkey drill

    I do however agree that it can be a good source of motivation. I do however also caution against this tendency to imitate the Marine Guard and throwing the things all over the place, as that is a good way to wind up with a concussion.
    Captain J. Gleiberman cd
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  5. #5
    It should be noted that when this is done by the USMC, the rifles used are lighter than the standard rifles, and are much more suited to the task. The Lee Enfields that are used by cadets for rifle drill are not designed to be used in that sort of way and I caution against it.

    From a personal level, I don't agree with the practice. It's unsafe, unsanctioned and inappropriate IMO. I won't get into the exhaustive list as to why it falls under those three categories for me, but you're more than welcome to do a search through the forums. My opinion on the matter is definitely available.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

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    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post
    It should be noted that when this is done by the USMC, the rifles used are lighter than the standard rifles, and are much more suited to the task. The Lee Enfields that are used by cadets for rifle drill are not designed to be used in that sort of way and I caution against it.

    From a personal level, I don't agree with the practice. It's unsafe, unsanctioned and inappropriate IMO. I won't get into the exhaustive list as to why it falls under those three categories for me, but you're more than welcome to do a search through the forums. My opinion on the matter is definitely available.

    JB
    i agree with the fact that the USMC SDP uses lighter rifles i personally am going to be ordering a dp rifle made for this kinda activity but yes all very good reasons


    Quote Originally Posted by dhillon View Post
    It was featured in an edition of Cadence magazine some time ago. I recall that sparking debate on the forums and across the Cadet world.

    Personally, I believe it's a great way to increase retention and have some fun but only until someone makes a mistake and gets seriously hurt or damages the rifle being used. If conducted, my personal opinion is that an individual should practice it until they are fully competent in doing it safely. Never EVER to be done with a functional weapon, only ever a drill purpose (of course) and even then, I know those that would cringe at the sight of a Lee Enfield being thrown around, DP rifle or not. If doing "monkey drill", it would be nice if the rifles used were a different style, similar to the ones used by the US. Our Navy League has a bunch. They are white.
    i also agree with the motivation and fun and as i do do the tosses in the air and such safety is of the most important so not to hurt ones self, DP rifles only i agree fully .



    When it comes to doing this kinda stuff practice and safety are key factor in doing it properly and reduce the risk of injury

  7. #7
    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Gleiberman View Post
    But...but...but...that's monkey drill

    I do however agree that it can be a good source of motivation. I do however also caution against this tendency to imitate the Marine Guard and throwing the things all over the place, as that is a good way to wind up with a concussion.
    safety is a major key factor in this as to not hurt ones self or atleast highly reduce the risk of injury

  8. #8
    Only speaking for myself here and putting CATOs and the 201 aside...

    I have never liked the flippity-floppity, Hollywood rifle tossing business. For one, I much prefer dignified to ostentatious. For another, I know the history of where every movement of our rifle drill comes from and how it relates to the manual of arms used by armies of the past. In other words, it might be ceremonial now but each movement had a specific purpose and that history appeals to me a lot. Importing movements that have no purpose whatsoever from a country that does not share our traditions is as irritating to me as a mosquito bite between the shoulder blades.

    Now, even with winners of drill comps, I see very, very, VERY few cadet units execute "proper" rifle drill to a very high standard. And, to me, that would be a prerequisite to beginning to learn "monkey drill". Even the best monkey drill sequence I've ever seen executed by a cadet unit has looked slack and idle to me - and the reason is that they have not learned the basics first.

    WRT to the USMC rifles (and other ceremonial units in the States), they also tend to loosen parts so the rifle makes noise as the movements are done.

    My two pence.
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  10. #9
    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-P Johnson View Post
    Only speaking for myself here and putting CATOs and the 201 aside...

    I have never liked the flippity-floppity, Hollywood rifle tossing business. For one, I much prefer dignified to ostentatious. For another, I know the history of where every movement of our rifle drill comes from and how it relates to the manual of arms used by armies of the past. In other words, it might be ceremonial now but each movement had a specific purpose and that history appeals to me a lot. Importing movements that have no purpose whatsoever from a country that does not share our traditions is as irritating to me as a mosquito bite between the shoulder blades.

    Now, even with winners of drill comps, I see very, very, VERY few cadet units execute "proper" rifle drill to a very high standard. And, to me, that would be a prerequisite to beginning to learn "monkey drill". Even the best monkey drill sequence I've ever seen executed by a cadet unit has looked slack and idle to me - and the reason is that they have not learned the basics first.

    WRT to the USMC rifles (and other ceremonial units in the States), they also tend to loosen parts so the rifle makes noise as the movements are done.

    My two pence.
    more very good points i agree with the basics part about what you said and the history where the stuff we learn derives from both very very true. Personally i like the spinning stuff and standard rifle drill as both take time,precision,skill,dedication both have some of the same factors involved , but yes you are correct about people not fully learning the basics properly and performing them slack when they do .

  11. #10
    Wlodar.Alex is on a distinguished road Wlodar.Alex's Avatar
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    I think it could certainly have it's place. I completely agree with the above in that the basics should be learned first. To me, training a drill team with arms should be done by starting with the simple things that we already do. When an enhanced proficiency is shown by the team as a whole, starting to train with slightly more wild movements could be done. This way, the team has a goal to work toward, motivating them to really work on the basics and, at the same time, they will eventually be able to give very impressive displays.

    I do not think, however, that it should go too far. As I said, it has it's place. Some spinning and balance play that could be synchronized across a team would be impressive, but going into even more complicated things like tosses becomes a gamble of impression over safety.
    C/MWO Alexander Wlodarczyk
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  12. #11
    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalViper View Post
    I think it could certainly have it's place. I completely agree with the above in that the basics should be learned first. To me, training a drill team with arms should be done by starting with the simple things that we already do. When an enhanced proficiency is shown by the team as a whole, starting to train with slightly more wild movements could be done. This way, the team has a goal to work toward, motivating them to really work on the basics and, at the same time, they will eventually be able to give very impressive displays.

    I do not think, however, that it should go too far. As I said, it has it's place. Some spinning and balance play that could be synchronized across a team would be impressive, but going into even more complicated things like tosses becomes a gamble of impression over safety.
    i completely agree with u fully , tosses can be done safely if the user knows how to do them properly and such but it takes time to perfect

  13. #12
    dkelly is on a distinguished road dkelly's Avatar
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    i personally used monkey drill as a way to be more at ease when handling the rifle. if you are comfortable your not going to hurt yourself or others while doing that, than you will be more confident and at ease when doing regulation drill.

    My corp, what we would do, is we would pair our cadets off with one rifle between then, and starting maybe five paces away from each other, gently toss the rifle back and forth at the port arms to show them and to teach them not to be afraid of the rifle. as they get more confident, they progressed to throwing and catching with one hand, and from farther away.

    before anyone tries to tell me that its not safe, we do take every possible safety precaution we can, and we do have supplies and such on hand in the off chance that something goes wrong.
    CWO Kelly
    Ret. Training WO at 2918 Essex and Kent Scottish Army Cadet Corps
    canada  armycsm2

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    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkelly View Post
    i personally used monkey drill as a way to be more at ease when handling the rifle. if you are comfortable your not going to hurt yourself or others while doing that, than you will be more confident and at ease when doing regulation drill.

    My corp, what we would do, is we would pair our cadets off with one rifle between then, and starting maybe five paces away from each other, gently toss the rifle back and forth at the port arms to show them and to teach them not to be afraid of the rifle. as they get more confident, they progressed to throwing and catching with one hand, and from farther away.

    before anyone tries to tell me that its not safe, we do take every possible safety precaution we can, and we do have supplies and such on hand in the off chance that something goes wrong.
    my drill team officer and i did something simmilar but with 2 rifles and each time you/d toss it to the other person they'd toss theirs to you so you basiclly are tossing it 1 handed and catcing the other rifle one handed

  15. #14
    dkelly is on a distinguished road dkelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 831RCACS View Post
    my drill team officer and i did something simmilar but with 2 rifles and each time you/d toss it to the other person they'd toss theirs to you so you basiclly are tossing it 1 handed and catcing the other rifle one handed
    we did that later on, after they got used to handling one rifle, no need to get them started on throwing and catching at the same time
    CWO Kelly
    Ret. Training WO at 2918 Essex and Kent Scottish Army Cadet Corps
    canada  armycsm2

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    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkelly View Post
    we did that later on, after they got used to handling one rifle, no need to get them started on throwing and catching at the same time
    me and my drill officer did both right off the bat to show them what they would be doing later but we could cause we had both done it and tricks so it was easier for us then it would have been with them

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dkelly View Post
    My corp, what we would do, is we would pair our cadets off with one rifle between then, and starting maybe five paces away from each other, gently toss the rifle back and forth at the port arms to show them and to teach them not to be afraid of the rifle. as they get more confident, they progressed to throwing and catching with one hand, and from farther away.
    So what do you do when someone throws a rifle and it breaks? Duct tape can only fix so much.

    You're just asking for something to go wrong, aren't you?

  18. #17
    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NomiS View Post
    So what do you do when someone throws a rifle and it breaks? Duct tape can only fix so much.

    You're just asking for something to go wrong, aren't you?
    we use lee enfields for this and only 2 people have dropped them so no not really and duct tape can do anything .stocks are cheap to buy at surplus store so

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    quadrapiper is on a distinguished road quadrapiper's Avatar
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    While, in theory, I don't necessarily disagree with your notions regarding "getting comfortable with the rifle," it disturbs me that you're treating the possibility of damage to the LEs in so cavalier a manner.

    This isn't 1947, with millions of the things to be had. Every Enfield, DP or working, is irreplaceable. Treasure your rifles.

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  21. #19
    CW Social Media Team Member 831RCACS is on a distinguished road 831RCACS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quadrapiper View Post
    While, in theory, I don't necessarily disagree with your notions regarding "getting comfortable with the rifle," it disturbs me that you're treating the possibility of damage to the LEs in so cavalier a manner.

    This isn't 1947, with millions of the things to be had. Every Enfield, DP or working, is irreplaceable. Treasure your rifles.
    I do treasure my DP rifles thats y im ordering a drill rifle made for spinning and such

  22. #20
    Flashman is on a distinguished road Flashman's Avatar
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    Too bad cadets can't be charged for this junk.
    We are working very hard, down at Upnor Hard...
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