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Thread: Editing a Post

  1. #1

    Editing a Post

    I seem to have lost the right to edit my own posts to correct my awful spelling and grammatical errors.

    Any help?

    Edit: It appears I can edit this one. Are there new rules for editing in certain threads? Is there now a time frame or something?
    powerwings
    Capt A. Oke
    -Air to Ground Chemical Transfer Technician-
    Ex WOI lsmaircsm1

  2. #2
    I can't edit a post that I made this morning.

    But I can edit this one, so I would think that there is a time limit.

  3. #3
    Wlodar.Alex is on a distinguished road Wlodar.Alex's Avatar
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    I've had the problem in the past as well, but I don't think it's a matter of time. I recall having re-read one of my posts immediately after posting it and not being able to fix a mistake.
    Pte. (R) A.M. Wlodarczyk


  4. #4
    After merely a couple hours, I can no longer edit the original post. It could very well have been sooner than that, as I had not checked any sooner than a couple hours.

    Maybe a monkey can look into the issue?
    powerwings
    Capt A. Oke
    -Air to Ground Chemical Transfer Technician-
    Ex WOI lsmaircsm1

  5. #5
    It's not an issue, it's a feature. It was put in place over a year ago.

    Digital Viper, not sure what you are encountering but you should still be able to edit for quite a while after posting.
    gliderwingsJ-P Johnson cd1
    Barrie Ontario
    The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

  6. #6
    Well I can no longer edit my earlier post in this thread, so the time limit isn't very long.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Woods View Post
    Well I can no longer edit my earlier post in this thread, so the time limit isn't very long.
    60 minutes. After that a post can only be edited by a Mod with permissions in that forum, or by a SuperMod or Admin. If you have something older than an hour that you would like to have edited, you need to ask someone with the right buttons and have a convincing reason.

    This is common practice amongst many forums, and we changed our settings on this some time ago as Capt Johnson mentioned.

    KD
    Kevin C. Deck cd1
    Lt(N)
    RCSCC GRILSE canada bc
    Past CO - RCSCC MEDICINE HAT, RCSCC BICKNELL, RCSCC GRILSE

  8. #8
    Thanks for the insight. I would like to officially change this from a help thread to a suggestion thread. I suggest the feature be removed. I am not a die hard here on CW and I do no re-check my posts every hour on the hour, and nor is this practice seen on any of the other half dozen forums I read/post on.

    I would like to see users be able to control their own content. I remember some bickering coming up in the wardroom about one user continually changing context once the conversation was established ... but other than that, I have never really seen an "issue" with editing.
    powerwings
    Capt A. Oke
    -Air to Ground Chemical Transfer Technician-
    Ex WOI lsmaircsm1

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Oke A View Post
    Thanks for the insight. I would like to officially change this from a help thread to a suggestion thread. I suggest the feature be removed. I am not a die hard here on CW and I do no re-check my posts every hour on the hour, and nor is this practice seen on any of the other half dozen forums I read/post on.

    I would like to see users be able to control their own content. I remember some bickering coming up in the wardroom about one user continually changing context once the conversation was established ... but other than that, I have never really seen an "issue" with editing.
    Nobody asked me, but I support this position. I only know of one other forum that prevents users from editing their posts, and I hate to think of CW behaving as they do.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Oke A View Post
    Thanks for the insight. I would like to officially change this from a help thread to a suggestion thread. I suggest the feature be removed. I am not a die hard here on CW and I do no re-check my posts every hour on the hour, and nor is this practice seen on any of the other half dozen forums I read/post on.

    I would like to see users be able to control their own content. I remember some bickering coming up in the wardroom about one user continually changing context once the conversation was established ... but other than that, I have never really seen an "issue" with editing.
    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    Nobody asked me, but I support this position. I only know of one other forum that prevents users from editing their posts, and I hate to think of CW behaving as they do.
    I have started a thread in the Mod area and we'll let you know how we feel.

  11. #11
    The Administrators and Moderators have reviewed this policy. The consensus is that we maintain a 60 minute free edit policy.

    As one moderator mentioned:

    I am a member of a whole raft of forums that don't put a limit on editing but I am also a member of a bunch that do. Moving only slightly outside the forum paradigm, comment sections on many websites allow neither editing nor deletion on initial posting. Even in Twitter and Facebook, you can't edit every posting - you can only post or delete.

    Even at work or at school, once something is submitted, you can't often call something back.

    In that, arguing that people must have control of their own posts is, really, a non-argument.

    Does this have a chilling effect? No, I don't think so. No-one noticed or, at least, was concerned enough to mention it until now. If it's so bad that you need to fix or delete it later, you can always contact a moderator.


    That sums up our stance.

    The policy was enacted due to an abuse of editing privileges.

    We have had cases where members who wish to leave CW have mass deleted entries. This goes against our no profile delete and no anonymous post policies.

    We have also had members who have changed the language, content and context of their posts within minutes, hours, days and weeks after the original post. This kills the discussion and often makes any follow post seem unwarranted.

    CW is a discussion board and we need to maintain discussion. In the spirit of House Rule #1 (Would you say this in person?), in a verbal discussion, you cannot simply retract a statement, especially after someone else has responded. You must clarify your statement or simply admit that you were wrong after any response.

    This rule has been in place for just under one year with very little notice or comment. Any member who has had issues (spelling and/or grammar) has contacted the appropriate moderator and the post has been edited.

    CW has tools at your disposal to help you review your posts before hitting reply. They are SPELL CHECK and PREVIEW POST. We suggest that all members use them, especially with longer posts. All members are responsible for and are in control of their own posts when they hit REPLY.

  12. #12
    Thanks for the response from the mods Rob,

    For the record, multi million, and multi billion dollar social media corporations do not have as much vested interest in control of text content contributions. Twitter allows full out deletions, Facebook allows editing and deletions, Google allows editing and deletions, Pintrest, Instagram, Tumblr, etc, yet CW is non-profit, funded by members, and more restrictive.

    It's unfortunate that the odd single member can control the entire outcome of reputable CW members' access when there are other means of rectifying the near non existant "issue". Over the years of reading and posting on this forum, there has been minimal to nearly non-existent issues regarding change of context. Warnings to follow policy, temporary bans, permanent bans, etc can be in place in lieu of restricting the entire membership's access to content that they have contributed. When you feed a dog sled team, and one husky bites -- Do you smack all the dogs on the nose?

    I am not requesting the ability to break house rules, delete profiles, change context, post anonymously, or anything else portrayed in the consensus of the discussion. Browser spell check, preview post are great tools, and so was editing.

    It is what it is I suppose.
    Last edited by JetA Burner; 25th March 2013 at 06:20.
    powerwings
    Capt A. Oke
    -Air to Ground Chemical Transfer Technician-
    Ex WOI lsmaircsm1

  13. #13
    Lt Oke,

    a follow-up to your previous comments here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oke A View Post

    For the record, multi million, and multi billion dollar social media corporations do not have as much vested interest in control of text content contributions. Twitter allows full out deletions, Facebook allows editing and deletions, Google allows editing and deletions, Pintrest, Instagram, Tumblr, etc, yet CW is non-profit, funded by members, and more restrictive.
    I know those seem like easy comparisons, but comparing CW to Facebook or Twitter is not the best comparison to make. As a discussion forum, we are a completely different animal from a major Social Media service. The best comparison would be to compare us to other topic-specific discussion boards. As Rob mentioned in his reply, the experience of the staff is that some other boards that some of us are members on allow unlimited editing, and some do not. I personally belong to two other forums, each of different focus, that also lock content after an hour.

    To further examine your Social Media comparison, look what often happens on Facebook or Twitter. People often say provocative things, provoke heated responses, then go back and delete their original comments, and smile smugly at the mess they made. Social Media can be a great tool, but it also has a reputation for reducing the level of discussion to a much lower denominator. There was a time when CW used to be like that, when we allowed members to have multiple accounts and be completely anonymous, and trolls abounded here. I'd like to think that we have elevated the level and tone of discussion here considerably since those days by enacting some reasonable policies.


    It's unfortunate that the odd single member can control the entire outcome of reputable CW members' access
    Who said it was one member?



    Over the years of reading and posting on this forum, there has been minimal to nearly non-existent issues regarding change of context. Warnings to follow policy, temporary bans, permanent bans, etc can be in place in lieu of restricting the entire membership's access to content that they have contributed. When you feed a dog sled team, and one husky bites -- Do you smack all the dogs on the nose?
    Warnings, bans, etc are reactive actions, where we react to an individual who is causing a problem. They require direct time and energy from our all-volunteer Staff Members.

    Changing the edit restriction policy is proactive. It teaches members to know and understand that they have to be thoughtful about what they post, that they cannot just have knee-jerk reactions, post whatever comes to mind, and then go back and change it all the next morning after realizing that they were rude to several people or were just plain wrong about the facts that they did not take the time to research. They have a Preview button they can use before committing their words to the site, and they have 60 minutes to correct, clarify or change their mind about their post.

    If after a preview, and 60 minutes of sober second-thought, they stand by their words, their words will stand on. Those that learn and understand this are mindful of what they say and how they say it. No staff member needs to remind them every time they post.

    To use your analogy, the policy "trains" all the members to not "bite" by reinforcing that after 60 minutes, the bite could leave a permanent scar.

    Another analogy that was offered by the staff reply by Rob was with regard to Comment sections on some websites. Many media sites that allow comments, or even blogs that allow comments do the same sort of thing as we are doing here at CW. Blog sites running the WordPress CMS, for instance, do not allow members to edit their comments by default, you have to add a 3rd party plugin to enable that, and many just do not. Comment locking is fairly standard in the "Blogosphere. " Of those media sites and blogs that do allow comments, some allow only a limited window of comment editing, just as we have here.

    This is an important and more relevant analogy, because CW is not like the Social Media sites you mentioned above. CW is a privately owned Content Publishing site. Our content is discussion, articles, images, blog posts, etc, and is contributed by members who voluntarily publish their content here. Those contributions are covered by our Terms of Use, which state:

    Quote Originally Posted by CW ToU
    By contributing Content to the Site, you are granting CadetWorld a non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide license to use that Content (which includes original video or other content hosted on a third-party server and/or site) in connection with the operation of the Site, including, without limitation, the license rights to store, copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, reproduce, edit, translate and reformat your contributed content, and/or to incorporate it into a collective work. This includes, but is not limited to, republishing the content onto our social media channels (eg, Facebook, Twitter, etc) or any other media, electronic or otherwise, for the purpose of promoting CadetWorld.
    The ToU goes on to specifically cover different types of content and what a member can or cannot do, eg, you can't edit a post after an hour, but you can delete your attachments at any time, unless you have been banned, etc.

    These terms are fairly common across Content Publishing Sites from discussion boards to photo sharing sites. The ToU tells you as Members what you have a right to expect, and also protects us should a member say "Hey I did not give you permission to Tweet my discussion topic and plaster it on Facebook!" We reserve that right in our ToU and permission is automatically granted the moment you press "Submit" on your post.

    The end result is: if you choose to publish comments, photos, blog posts, articles, etc, on CadetWorld, you grant us the right to store, display, manage and re-purpose that content. It is the trade-off that a member makes: CW offers a platform of prominence in our topic of interest. We have an obligation to ensure that discussion and content here is of a certain level, respectable, and reliable. In order to do that, we enact certain policies that ensure that members understand that, and we enforce those measures by various means. We try not to be draconian about it, hence the fact that we give an hour for editing, and after that we will still consider an edit or delete if you can justify it to a Staff Member.

    You said in an earlier post:

    I would like to see users be able to control their own content.
    If a member creates their own blog, their own website, or posts on their own account on a social media platform, they can control their own content. If they choose to post content on our platform, which has a certain standing within the greater Cadet Organization community, they are obligated to do so in accordance with our published policies. By choosing to publish content here, in any form, members agree to assign the rights to that content to us. We try to balance the need to be fair to our members about how we use that content with the need to maintain a publishing platform that meets a certain standard, and allows us to preserve, package and promote the content to help us achieve our aims. Obviously if we swing too far away from being member-friendly, we will lose members, so we try to strike a reasonable balance. As mentioned, this thread is the first real complaint we have had in the year or so since we changed this particular policy, so I think that the balance we have struck is reasonable.


    I hope this helps clarify some things for you.

    KD
    Last edited by Lt(N) Deck; 27th March 2013 at 17:57. Reason: typos
    Kevin C. Deck cd1
    Lt(N)
    RCSCC GRILSE canada bc
    Past CO - RCSCC MEDICINE HAT, RCSCC BICKNELL, RCSCC GRILSE

  14. #14
    Thanks for the detailed response!

    To further examine your Social Media comparison...
    As one moderator mentioned:

    I am a member of a whole raft of forums that don't put a limit on editing but I am also a member of a bunch that do. Moving only slightly outside the forum paradigm, comment sections on many websites allow neither editing nor deletion on initial posting. Even in Twitter and Facebook, you can't edit every posting - you can only post or delete.
    Let it be clear that it was not my initial comparison to other platforms of social media. My comments about social media mediums, aside from discussion forums, was driven from the bold above stated by "a mod". I am well aware of the subtle differences, and was driving the point home that simple edits are not a concern. On the other hand, CW and other majors should be concerned with rights, and it is shown that CW is, as outlined in the terms. Discussion forums were around before the term social media was even coined. CW is very much a social media platform, and over the years has become even more so in line with what you see today as social media with the addition of "Walls", blogs, albums, etc.

    Without seeing the behind the scenes discussion, how the conclusion was come about, and only being given reason via Rob's post and "summing up" the admin and mods stance, it appeared that the justification for the restriction on editing was weak at best. "Well, Twitter and Facebook doesn't allow it, so we don't either." --That simply wasn't true as I outlined above, and I back my stance with reason. "You submit something in work/school you can't get it back" -- This isn't work or school, thus irrelevant. "Other forums do it, so now we do it too" -- This is an awful, unjustified argument ... reminds me of things your parents say about jumping off a bridge...

    As for content rights, much like the majors, it is good to see CW is aware and concerned about this, as outlined in the Terms. I do not have a beef with that. There are photo gallery's, blogs, and posts and articles all to be used freely as per terms and conditions. I do not have an issue with that. Heck, one of my posts is even being used as an article on the site! However, when I was discussing control of content, I was not discussing rights ... but merely control the spelling and grammar of what I post. Yes, I see that I have an hour window, but I feel that is far too short and I would like to see it removed. It is far to taxing for myself (and staff) to PM a staff member to remove an extra "the" or add some punctuation for clarity. Not to repeat myself, but I am not requesting the ability to break house rules, delete profiles, change context, post anonymously, or anything else portrayed in the consensus of the discussion. Browser spell check, preview post are great tools, and so was editing.

    Your detailed explanation provides for a much better stance then what was initially given above given the new topics that you have brought to the table. If this is a time and energy issue and proactive measure, then I missed the boat on when it became an issue to begin with. Even so, staff is not the entire watchdog crew with the "report a post" feature.

    In conclusion, I miss the feature of not being able to edit "there, their, and they're" (etc) in my post and uphold my responsibility as a CW member as outlined by staff.


    CW House Rules
    Our Responsibilities!

    * To make every effort to ensure the accuracy of all information given.
    * To improve our service based on suggestions by the users and staff.
    Your Responsibilities!

    * To represent yourself appropriately and correctly as a member of the global cadet community.
    * To make sensible suggestions to better the environment and atmosphere of CadetWorld.
    * To make every effort to ensure spelling, grammar and punctuation are correct.
    Last edited by JetA Burner; 27th March 2013 at 16:21.
    powerwings
    Capt A. Oke
    -Air to Ground Chemical Transfer Technician-
    Ex WOI lsmaircsm1

  15. #15
    Thank you for your suggestion and bringing forth your concern in a way that, I can assure you, prompted much discussion in the staff forums.

    Should this pose a problem for you with regard to grammatical errors and such - Please do not hesitate to contact one of the staff - I can assure you that we do receive requests to edit thread titles and such, and that we make the time to honour these requests as they arise.

    At the end of the day, we simply wished to uphold the integrity of a 'real time' spirit of a discussion and we hope that you can understand how we came to our conclusions.


    In addition... And in response to a desire for equal expectations across the board - I will also commit that the moderators, staff and administrators of this site will NOT edit their own posts in the interest of grammatical accuracy, or for altering their views. We will, however, edit posts that are specifically relevant to the running of the site (like this one) in the interest of adding to a post (such as this comment) as a need arises. Should you feel a moderator or staff member has failed to meet this commitment, please address this with me directly via the reported post button or via PM. I expect our staff to hold ourselves to the same standard we afford to our users - And use our buttons for good, not evil. Fair?

    As you can see on the bottom of this post - there is a "Last edited by S Urbanoski" statement. Please report any posts whereby you feel a staff member has inappropriately edited their own posts for non-site management purposes.
    Last edited by S Urbanoski; 27th March 2013 at 19:18.

    Sylena Urbanoski
    Every person is in some way, my superior.- Emerson


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