27th October 2011 02:58 #1
Legion tells veteran group to stop poppy useOriginally Posted by CBC
Offending group CVFR (their logo is also copyrighted )
Royal Canadian Legion (several copyrighted logos)
Will the government have them stop using the maple leaf? Will Colt Canada have them remove the C7?
27th October 2011 06:50 #2
27th October 2011 06:59 #3
Sorry, but the CVFR is wrong here.
This is a motorcycle club. Their work in the community basically involves them riding their motorcycles to events. The Legion uses the money from poppies to do staggering amounts of good in the community. I would absolutely want to protect that brand name.
I have issues with the RCL that would fill volumes but with respect to poppies - or rather that particular design of poppy - I'm behind them 100%J-P JohnsonBarrie OntarioThe standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
27th October 2011 08:26 #4
Oddly, the RCL had Canada Remembers (part of Veterans Affairs Canada) stop using the poppy in its promotional materials. Now CR uses generic poppy photos/images and there is only one image that closely resembles the RCL's poppy.
This is not the first time the RCL has done this:
Will CW be the next target?
27th October 2011 09:30 #5
In reading the comment sections of media websites, it's obvious that we now live an age where feelings and conjecture replace fact. The number of people who say the Legion has to standing because the don't "own poppies" makes me wonder if all the lead they used to put in paint is now coming into play in people's thought processes. Of course the Legion doesn't own all poppies - they never claimed to - just that one version of one.
No-one owns the sun but that doesn't mean you can appropriate the logo of any company that uses the sun in their branding for your own purposes either.
And to be perfectly honest, seeing as the CVFR has copyrighted that logo, this is just a straight up copyright infringement case - with both being veterans groups merely being a big fat red herring.J-P JohnsonBarrie OntarioThe standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
27th October 2011 10:54 #6
Is this that one poppy is a copy of another poppy, or is it that someone else chose to use a poppy?
I would argue that the meaning has changed.
It is no longer "I remember"
It is now "I remember TM Royal Canadian Legion 2003"
The poppy, in fact, was first noticed as a sign of remembrance by the French during Napoleonic wars. The RCL even admits that it is an international symbol.
You will see some pictures here, of some different remembrance poppies, from different countries. They all look similar. Perhaps CVFR is using the ANZAC version?
Hopefully Poppyman doesn't get sued. We wouldn't be able to see him
The Canadian flag and maple leaf are also trademarked. Should we be prohibited from using those as well?
I too read the comments on the CBC site. I see great ignorance from both sides of the table. The greatest example being that the RCL is the oldest...........it was formed some 80 years after ANAVETS.
27th October 2011 11:13 #7
- Join Date
- Orangeville ON Canada
- Blog Entries
I saw the news about this this morning and I was outraged; veterans wanting to use legal action against other veterans?! It makes me sick.
I also heard that in the design that the CVFR is making, they are using a British poppy..not the one trademarked by the RCL. Weather is matters if it's British or not, I don't know.
Just my two cents.
1849 Lorne Scots RC(Army)CC Orangeville, ON
27th October 2011 14:50 #8
- Join Date
- Blog Entries
There doesn't seem to be a good reason to trademark something like this, since I see it changing from it's original symbolic meaning, to a business logo.
This is a very backwards thing to do. The RCL promotes poppy as a free symbol and when you see the cadets, or whoever in front of a store door with a carton of them, they're by donation, not a price (you can have one for free if you wanted to), but as soon as a group they don't like uses the symbol, it's pretty much 'no, you can't use that symbol, it's ours' and the cease-and-desist is sent out.
I support the remembrance symbolic meaning, but I don't support turning it into a business and using it with a trademarking scheme like this.こんにちは！
27th October 2011 17:08 #9
I think the poppy issue is only a small issue of a big debate: "Those the RCL own rememberance day?" (Or do they think they own rememberance day)
In the years past I have seen them refuse the participation of other groupe into parade even if they contain veteran because it didn't fit there vision. Or flying the Red Ensign at the place of the current Canadian flag. (I understand that it was under that flag that some f them faught under but others have serve under the current flag and it wasn't in the flag party)
28th October 2011 05:26 #10
I'm sure our resident legal expert could weigh in on this, but I would not have thought that an image of a person wearing a poppy would be a violation of the RCL's trademark anyhow, specifically when the poppy design is used is not that of the RCL per se, but rather a generic poppy image. Regardless, while I understand the need for the Legion to exercise propietary control over their image, or risk losing it to the public domain, surely they can do that by furnishing a letter of permission that specifically details the extent to which the CVFR can use the logo. By issuing a cease and desist order, they look petty.
Last edited by DA Wright; 28th October 2011 at 07:47.D.A. Wright
Do, or do not, there is no try -Yoda
28th October 2011 05:37 #11
It's clearly meant to be the "Canadian" poppy. A day's pay says that the UK poppy never occurred to them until someone brought it up on a media comment board.
They're caught, they know they don't have a legal leg to stand on so now they are changing their story.J-P JohnsonBarrie OntarioThe standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
28th October 2011 05:59 #12
The RCL stopped Canada Remembers from using this:
Perhaps the CF and CCO should stop wearing the RCL version and create a generic, non-affiliated version of the flower. Don't want to show preference to one veterans' group over another.
28th October 2011 06:09 #13
28th October 2011 22:51 #14
Copyright infringement is only a problem if it is seen to be a problem by the holder of the Copyright. An example is that most CF Badges are crown copyright. DND will usually only get involved if there is a blatant commercial aspect or the use brings disrepute to the CF.GWP
29th October 2011 02:08 #15
All veterans' plates must be approved by BCVCA. On their application form, the Legion is but one possible route.
In Ontario, as an example, the RCL is the ONLY authority.
BTW, the requirements between the two provinces are also quite different. In BC, its MOC qualified plus honourable release. In Ontario, for a Reservist, its minimum 1095 days paid or CD or operational deployment.