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  1. #1

    Split: Mess Dress and Headdress

    Quote Originally Posted by rwgill View Post
    [*]Headdress and mess dinners/dress is an odd case. In 99% of cases, headdress should not be worn.
    Nothing odd about it "headdress is worn in "all orders of dress"

    3. Navy Uniforms
    a. Except as noted in sub-paragraph b.,
    navy
    personnel shall wear the following headdress:
    (1) ceremonial, mess and service dress – cap/hat service dress, tuque, Yukon cap, or turban;

    4. Army Uniforms (after going through the various beret colours the book says)
    g. Others
    (1) The rifle green beret or turban shall be worn with all orders of dress other than full dress and patrol dress, except when
    personnel are authorized to wear a beret or turban of a different colour or when precluded by operational or safety requirements.
    (2) General officers may wear the cap/hat service dress as an alternative wear/optional dress item.


    5. Air Force Uniforms
    a. Except as noted in sub-paragraph b., air force personnel shall wear the following headdress:
    (1) ceremonial, mess and service dress – cap/hat service dress (officers and CWOs), wedge cap, tuque, Yukon cap, or turban;
    GWP
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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by GWP View Post
    5. Air Force Uniforms
    a. Except as noted in sub-paragraph b., air force personnel shall wear the following headdress:
    (1) ceremonial, mess and service dress – cap/hat service dress (officers and CWOs), wedge cap, tuque, Yukon cap, or turban;
    I noticed you trimmed a sentence of personal observation at the end of this part. That's just as well.

    I'm still looking for the orginal message about air forage caps but a quick look on milnet comfirmed that I'm not the only person who has seen it.

    But, FYI, just got off of the Logistik website just seconds ago and while the forage cap was removed from the replacement order (ie points) area a number of years ago, it's now also gone from the cash sales area too.

    If that's not a sign of obsolescence, I don't know what is...
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by GWP View Post
    Nothing odd about it "headdress is worn in "all orders of dress"

    3. Navy Uniforms
    a. Except as noted in sub-paragraph b.,
    navy
    personnel shall wear the following headdress:
    (1) ceremonial, mess and service dress – cap/hat service dress, tuque, Yukon cap, or turban;

    4. Army Uniforms (after going through the various beret colours the book says)
    g. Others
    (1) The rifle green beret or turban shall be worn with all orders of dress other than full dress and patrol dress, except when
    personnel are authorized to wear a beret or turban of a different colour or when precluded by operational or safety requirements.
    (2) General officers may wear the cap/hat service dress as an alternative wear/optional dress item.


    5. Air Force Uniforms
    a. Except as noted in sub-paragraph b., air force personnel shall wear the following headdress:
    (1) ceremonial, mess and service dress – cap/hat service dress (officers and CWOs), wedge cap, tuque, Yukon cap, or turban;
    And the following:

    8. Outerwear. The following outerwear may be
    worn or carried with mess dress as appropriate:

    a. headdress (worn outdoors);
    Unless walking outdoors a great distance, headdress is not normally worn or required.

    Walking from the parking lot, to the mess, less headdress is completely tolerable.......even accepted. I have even seen it where walking from the barracks to the mess is deemed appropriate (as normally the two are close), less headdress.

    The last two mess dinners I attended...............no headdress was seen at all. Guests present included RegF, PRes and CIC.

  5. #4
    Bad time to mention I went shopping in mess kit? (bad, bad, cadpat sailor....but it was an emergency and it was thr canex across the street

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rwgill View Post
    And the following:

    Unless walking outdoors a great distance, headdress is not normally worn or required.

    Walking from the parking lot, to the mess, less headdress is completely tolerable.......even accepted. I have even seen it where walking from the barracks to the mess is deemed appropriate (as normally the two are close), less headdress.

    The last two mess dinners I attended...............no headdress was seen at all. Guests present included RegF, PRes and CIC.
    Lots of people do it (and get away with it), but that doesn't make it right. (How hard it is to put a bloody hat on your head, anyway?)

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  8. #6
    Quick question - are we discussing whether to wear head dress while in mess dress??

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootemup View Post
    Ribbons on what was supposed to be mess dress.
    This is correct by CF custom; only miniature medals are worn on No. 2 and 2A, 2B 'interim' (the equivalent of what cadets wear in absence of mess dress) calls for ribbons, as does the air cadet C-8 equivalent order. Full size medals at dinner is what's odd, as is not wearing nametags.
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  10. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by GWP View Post
    Nothing odd about it "headdress is worn in "all orders of dress"

    3. Navy Uniforms
    a. Except as noted in sub-paragraph b.,
    navy
    personnel shall wear the following headdress:
    (1) ceremonial, mess and service dress – cap/hat service dress, tuque, Yukon cap, or turban;


    5. Air Force Uniforms
    a. Except as noted in sub-paragraph b., air force personnel shall wear the following headdress:
    (1) ceremonial, mess and service dress – cap/hat service dress (officers and CWOs), wedge cap, tuque, Yukon cap, or turban;
    So...you may wear a tuque to a mess function...?
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    Duty Above All

  11. #9
    DA Wright is on a distinguished road DA Wright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baloobot View Post
    So...you may wear a tuque to a mess function...?
    Yes. If it is cold and you have a distance to travel to the function, it is entirely appropriate to wear overcoat/gabardine and tuque (though Yukon cap would be more a more formal-looking option).
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  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    Lots of people do it (and get away with it), but that doesn't make it right. (How hard it is to put a bloody hat on your head, anyway?)
    It is absolutely the "proper" thing to do (I do it - had a Field Service Cap made!) but it isn't really done by Canadians, unfortunately. I've only seen a few other caps in the cloakroom before mess dinners.
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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Flashman View Post
    It is absolutely the "proper" thing to do (I do it - had a Field Service Cap made!) but it isn't really done by Canadians, unfortunately. I've only seen a few other caps in the cloakroom before mess dinners.
    Like a thousand other things in the Service, those who know will do it right and thereby set an example for those who don't know.

    For clarification to others, I don't think anybody here is suggesting that it's correct to wear headdress with mess kit while actually in the mess.

  14. #12
    DA Wright is on a distinguished road DA Wright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    Like a thousand other things in the Service, those who know will do it right and thereby set an example for those who don't know.

    For clarification to others, I don't think anybody here is suggesting that it's correct to wear headdress with mess kit while actually in the mess.
    To me, if you are wearing a rain coat or overcoat with mess kit, headdress is required. Additionally, if you are walking outdoors more than a few hundred metres, headdress should be worn, and compliments paid as required. It is still a uniform order of dress.
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  16. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DA Wright View Post
    To me, if you are wearing a rain coat or overcoat with mess kit, headdress is required. Additionally, if you are walking outdoors more than a few hundred metres, headdress should be worn, and compliments paid as required. It is still a uniform order of dress.
    Agreed, but my distance threshold is closer to a few metres than a few hundred.

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  18. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    Agreed, but my distance threshold is closer to a few metres than a few hundred.
    So is this within your threshold?

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  19. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    Agreed, but my distance threshold is closer to a few metres than a few hundred.
    Do we need Headdress Police at mess dinners now?




  20. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by rwgill View Post
    Do we need Headdress Police at mess dinners now?
    Hat Police, no, but sometimes you get busted anyway.

    I used to wear my forage cap while I was in mess order of dress and travelling to and from mess dinners (and hating it because no matter how I tried forming it, it always dug into my forehead and left a nice mark when I took it off). Anyway, I've only failed to wear it once.

    I arrived a D-Day mess dinner at our armoury and, seeing pretty much everyone heading into the bldg sans chapeau, decided to leave mine behind in the car. My walk to the door was, literally, only about 10 metres but when I rounded the corner of the building I came face to face with the regiment's CO (and our "landlord"). He proceeded to climb my frame for being improperly dressed and unable to render the proper compliments. The man was on this occasion, and too many others, a complete knob(and uniquely anti-cadet - but that's another story); and 99.99% of other people in his position would not have done that; but that also doesn't mean he was wrong.

    My forage cap has been replaced by my wedge but I haven't left it behind since.
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    Barrie Ontario
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  21. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Gleiberman View Post
    So is this within your threshold?
    Presumably the lack of headdress is somehow related to their proximity to what appears to be a working flight line....

    Not to those concerned: appeal to authority and appeal to popularity are normally seen as logical fallacies for a good reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwgill View Post
    Man, you'd think they could clear their equipment out of the way for a mess dinner!

  22. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    Man, you'd think they could clear their equipment out of the way for a mess dinner!
    It's the SOT Gala, in Regina. The galleries were filled with equipment for all to see.

  23. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by J-P Johnson View Post
    ***post***
    When the Army still wore service caps, I saw them worn often in mess dress. Now that the Army is in berets it appears that they are left in the car.

  24. #20
    DA Wright is on a distinguished road DA Wright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    Agreed, but my distance threshold is closer to a few metres than a few hundred.
    I look at Trenton where Hastings Hall (and also the former Quinte House) are detached and slightly removed from the O Mess proper, but have always been considered integral buildings to 'the O Mess' as living-in quarters. Walking from one of those locations did not require headdress; whereas from BB 4, Bldg 21, Bldg 78 or other transient quarters, headdress was required. There are (or were) similar situations at Downsview, London, Ipperwash, Longeuil, Borden, and Kingston (amongst many others I am certain).
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