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  1. #1

    Sea Common Sea Cadet Questions & Tips

    This thread will be used to answer common questions such as where can I find a copy of the sea cadet dress regs, who gets to wear the gunners chain at my corps? And any generel tips CW users have like good ways to polish boots or iron your gunshirts etc.


    Let the posting begin!
    Jean Luc Blanchard, A de C
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  2. #2
    Bow3n is on a distinguished road Bow3n's Avatar
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    What is the history behind the crease in the middle of the gunshirt?
    Lt K.R.J. Bowen
    CFB Cold Lake, AB
    42 Radar Squadron

  3. #3
    Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson's Avatar
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    How would one get rid of gunshirt burns of epic proportions, besides waiting for the new one you ordered from your supply officer to come in?
    scsmCPO1 (Retired) Jacksonlsm
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Jackson View Post
    How would one get rid of gunshirt burns of epic proportions, besides waiting for the new one you ordered from your supply officer to come in?
    unfortunately from what ive seen in my experience, especially around the time anavets boards came around at camp, our DO told us to be extra careful while doing our gunshirts because once they are burnt, they are burnt, if someone knows how to get out a burn i would love to know how, but as far as i know, once its done, its done
    CPO1 Cox, D Ret,d
    Former Cox'n 344 Victoria,
    Calgary, AB
    Destitutus Ventis, Remos Adhibe

  5. #5
    Usually burns are a result of the starch burning, not the shirt - wash the shirt, and then iron it again; except this time, use steam instead of starch. The shirt can take high heat - the starch can't.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

  6. The Following User Likes This Post By Juice :


  7. #6

    Gunshirt Creases

    Quote Originally Posted by Bow3n View Post
    What is the history behind the crease in the middle of the gunshirt?
    Probably a QUADRA idea of the early 1970's. By this time the Reg Force sailors were into green uniforms and had stopped wearing gunshirts. I suspect that someone at QUADRA had the idea that this would make the uniform more tiddley and no one stopped him. When Sea Cadet dress regulations for wearing the green uniform came out the crease was enshrined in them in spite of our best efforts in Central Canada to prevent or stop it. You can access the RCN magazine "Crowsnest" on line and I challenge you to find a picture of an RCN rating with a crease in his gunshirt in any issue. RCN uniform instructions make no reference to a crease. If you have access to a former RCN Divisional Officers Handbook, BRCN 3059, you can find pictures of ratings in all numbers of dress and a picture of a kit muster layout on the man's bed that shows gunshirts neatly rolled and tied withot any creases. Until fairly recently the sizes and stock numbers were stamped on the bottom of the shirt tail and the item was considered reversible when I was a cadet in the 1950's and '60's. The amount of effort required to put and maintain a crease into this item of clothing is a further indication that a crease was never designed or intended for it. Can you imagine the VAST quantities of wasted starch and time (and burned gunshirts) that have been wasted on this practice over the past 30-40 years? We in the Sea Cadet movement did it to ourselves and being an ACADIA cadet and staff officer I know that it didn't start there. That is why I suspect it started in QUADRA possibly by someone seeing the USN practice of ironing creases into officer's khaki shirts, or for some other strange reason. This practice falls into the same category as wearing chains on belts or belt loops which is also a comparitively recent anomoly by people establishing their own unauthorized and inapprpriate dress practices.
    LCdr (ret'd) B.T. Bevvan
    former Commanding Officer
    R.C.S.C.C. QUINTE
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  9. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post
    Usually burns are a result of the starch burning, not the shirt - wash the shirt, and then iron it again; except this time, use steam instead of starch. The shirt can take high heat - the starch can't.

    JB
    If that does not work, attempt a hand wash using dish soap. Do not apply the sop to the collar as even though it does not contain bleach, the effects can be similar.
    Hutch

  10. #8
    When I did staff in Vernon in '96, I was quite the twig, so my tan shirt hung on my shoulders as if it had a crease down the middle. Ironing didn't help, it just picked that spot to fold. My Coy CO kept jokingly bugging me about it, "what are you, a sea cadet?!"

    As well as avoiding starch, I would recommend letting the crease cool a bit before you lift the shirt off the ironing board. Otherwise if it's still warm enough, you can put a kink in the crease that will "lock" in place once the fabric cools (and will remain until you next iron it).
    2Lt McInnes, Admin O
    2834 RCACC (Artillery)
    Yorkton, SK, Canada

  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LCdr B.T. Bevvan View Post
    Probably a QUADRA idea of the early 1970's.
    I have personally seen a historical picture of a Royal Navy sailor with a crease in his gunshirt.

    I will be kicking myself for some time for not having kept it so I could post it here every time this issue comes up.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    I have personally seen a historical picture of a Royal Navy sailor with a crease in his gunshirt.

    I will be kicking myself for some time for not having kept it so I could post it here every time this issue comes up.
    When it comes to historical research on uniforms, never go with single examples as being "typical". Rule of thumb - at least three independent sources.

    Think about sea cadets of the future pulling a single pic of a cadet wearing some of the most eggregious breaches of dress regs of today

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  14. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by N. McKay View Post
    I have personally seen a historical picture of a Royal Navy sailor with a crease in his gunshirt.

    I will be kicking myself for some time for not having kept it so I could post it here every time this issue comes up.
    I was just looking at the first episode of the 1976 BBC series "Sailor" about the last world cruise of HMS ARK ROYAL, and lo and behold the sailors have the vertical crease in the front of their gunshirts. I suspect that the origin in Canada indeed comes from someone copying an RN practice that probably emerged after the two navies had gone their separate ways on uniform standards.
    Gene C. Fedderly, CD, RCN
    Lieutenant-Commander

    qgjmcd2

  15. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by J-P Johnson View Post
    When it comes to historical research on uniforms, never go with single examples as being "typical". Rule of thumb - at least three independent sources.
    Whether or not it was typical of the time it certainly puts paid to the idea that it was first done at HMCS QUADRA, which is all I was looking for in my comment.

  16. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LCdr B.T. Bevvan View Post
    Probably a QUADRA idea of the early 1970's.
    My cousin was a boy seaman at HMS Ganges in the 60s. He (along with all of his shipmates) ironed a crease in the front of his gunshirt

    They also had to iron the 7 creases in their bells


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  17. #14
    michalex is on a distinguished road michalex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt(N) J. Hillsden View Post
    They also had to iron the 7 creases in their bells
    Was that done often? I've never heard of that being done. I love learning new stuff about the Navy
    CPO1 Michaela Alexanderlsmrclcmescsm
    #194 RCSCC Calypso
    Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
    HMCS ACADIA STAFF 2011

  18. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lt(N) J. Hillsden View Post
    My cousin was a boy seaman at HMS Ganges in the 60s.
    Have you read the book about HMS GANGES that came out a few years ago -- Band of Brothers or something?

  19. #16
    What was the purpose of making trades three summers long rather than one?
    I was told by a former sea cadet that you could earn your trade over one summer. And while I'm on it, what was junior and practical leadership like?
    Chief Petty Officer 1st Class
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    RCSCC (33) ST LAWRENCE Kingston, ONT

    aircsm

  20. #17
    Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson is a glorious beacon of light Teh_Jackson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attwells, J View Post
    What was the purpose of making trades three summers long rather than one?
    I was told by a former sea cadet that you could earn your trade over one summer. And while I'm on it, what was junior and practical leadership like?
    I imagine someone will come up and give you a better awnser, but my 2 cents...

    1) Its a lot of material to cover, especily on something like Bos'n 2/Boat operator, where you need a lot of time on the water to cover the SCOPs. summer is only 8 weeks long for most people.

    2) Its rather daunting to toss a 13 year old away to a CSTC for 6-8 weeks

    -------------
    Also, whoever told you that you could earn a trade over 1 summer was leaving out a lot of details. Sure, one could jump into TG3 sail (fine print: if they earned their first aid, bronze 4, SCOP1 and 2 civyside, even then you'll need some luck)
    scsmCPO1 (Retired) Jacksonlsm
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  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Jackson View Post
    Also, whoever told you that you could earn a trade over 1 summer was leaving out a lot of details. Sure, one could jump into TG3 sail (fine print: if they earned their first aid, bronze 4, SCOP1 and 2 civyside, even then you'll need some luck)
    Not really. Trade courses were only 1 summer in length. Sailors generally took Basic Sail and stuck it through, taking Sail Qual to obtain Bronze IV & V. Then they would take SI and get Silver VI and Green. Most musicians stayed the course with the hopes of getting into Sr Band.
    I took the Gunnery Instructor course as a cadet and completed as a GI. Other cadets did other trade courses in one summer and were qualified in their trade. Many cadets completed more than one trade course. In fact, one of the pre-requirements of the Practical Leadership course was to have completed a trade with preference going to those having completed two.

    The Junior Leadership course had gone through a few changes over the years. It used to be a 6 week course that was reduced to 4, then further reduced to 3 prior to being discontinued. The course was focused on the leadership aspects that a (then) Leading Cadet would have been able to grasp in preparation for them to go into their 3rd year of training at home. Cadets having completed JL were generally better situated in advance of the national PO2 exam and the course provided a broad spectrum to cadets helping them decide what trade course they would like to attend.
    James E. Cartwright cd
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  22. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLOD View Post
    Not really. Trade courses were only 1 summer in length. Sailors generally took Basic Sail and stuck it through, taking Sail Qual to obtain Bronze IV & V. Then they would take SI and get Silver VI and Green. Most musicians stayed the course with the hopes of getting into Sr Band.
    I took the Gunnery Instructor course as a cadet and completed as a GI. Other cadets did other trade courses in one summer and were qualified in their trade. Many cadets completed more than one trade course. In fact, one of the pre-requirements of the Practical Leadership course was to have completed a trade with preference going to those having completed two.

    The Junior Leadership course had gone through a few changes over the years. It used to be a 6 week course that was reduced to 4, then further reduced to 3 prior to being discontinued. The course was focused on the leadership aspects that a (then) Leading Cadet would have been able to grasp in preparation for them to go into their 3rd year of training at home. Cadets having completed JL were generally better situated in advance of the national PO2 exam and the course provided a broad spectrum to cadets helping them decide what trade course they would like to attend.
    We are evidently talking about different "trade courses" that I'm unfamiliar with. Listen to this guy

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Jackson View Post
    We are evidently talking about different "trade courses" that I'm unfamiliar with. Listen to this guy
    Yes. Prior to the introduction of the Trade Group system in 1997 (that is now being phased out) trade courses were only 6 (or 8 for MarEng) weeks long.

    When I took JL the first two weeks of the summer were great! The only course cadets aboard were the TWGTs, JLs, Basic Sail, Band, and PLs. Morning divisions was short and sweet, meal musters were the same. Then, all of the trades arrived to start week three. Mind you the JLs, Basic Sail, and Music were the only cadets that didn't have to double everywhere.
    James E. Cartwright cd
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