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Thread: Wedge Protocol.

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    Cadetkarl is on a distinguished road Cadetkarl's Avatar
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    Air Wedge Protocol.

    Hello, I am posting a question regarding wedges. (obviously) and I would like to know a pretty basic (no pun intended) answer. When is it proper, or customary to take off your wedge. I have read the CATOs, but they are just a little vague. For instance, does sitting require you to remove your headdress? how about consuming foods or snacks? what about driving a car? a cadet had asked me before about what was required practice, and I told him what I thought was the answer, only to find myself doubting myself as to if that information was correct. (Of course you would want an answer to be accurate, but I was just honestly telling him my info.) Any comments or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
    FSgt. Karl Werner
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    DA Wright is on a distinguished road DA Wright's Avatar
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    The general rule is that, when in public,the wedge is on unless you are in a restaurant or place of worship. This includes malls, museums, public buildings, schools, elevators, etc. When you enter a private space such as an office, you remove your wedge.

    A wedge is worn in a car, except that it may be removed if there is insufficient head room, or on extended trips (the latter at the discretion of the senior member present).

    You remove your wedge when eating, but there is an image thing here too. You shouldn't be eating just anywhere in public. I hate it when you go to a fair or airshow or something, and cadets are there, and you see them walking about in uniform with their wedge off eating a giant stick of cotton candy. If you are having a snack, you sit, remove your wedge, eat, clean up, replace your wedge, get up and go.

    Within a military facility, wedges are always worn outdoors (flight lines and certain op areas excepted), but wedges are not generally worn indoors. There are some indoor spaces, like the parade square and hallways in large buildings like armouries where wedges are worn ad compliments paid indoors, it is up to the local commander.

    The old rule was that 'you follow the civillian practice for wearing hats, but in this day and age where people where hats while eating in a restaurant, and don't take them off for anthems or prayers, you can't follow that rule.

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    Sexton is on a distinguished road Sexton's Avatar
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    Okay, so for the wedge and the white top, the rules are basically the same for when you would and wouldn't wear them, correct?
    If so, I have a question regarding canteen / stand easy.
    At my old corps, it was always enforced that cadets sit and eat their snacks downstairs in their mess. When they sat down, they would take their white tops off and place them under their seats. If there were no seats left, they would still remove their white tops and usually just put it under their arm or else under someone else's seat.
    At my new corps, only a few cadets ever actually sit for canteen, the rest usually eat their snacks on the parade square and no one ever tells them to take their white tops off.
    I have on the occasional time, but I've basically given up because all the other staff cadets tell me to stop doing that and that I'm wrong and "just cause your old corps didn't eat with their white tops on doesn't mean we do the same".
    I'm just wondering what the actual rule is for this.
    I hate seeing them eating on the parade square to begin with, but we haven't given them a junior mess and we don't have anywhere else to put them apparently (I beg to differ as I've given options, but people ignore them), but if they are eating on the parade square, is their white top to be removed or not ?
    Thanks .
    Just have a little faith

  5. #4
    From what I have observed, is that you take the headress off while eating. I've been a part of my units that observe the practice, including RegF NCMs who work with the corps. As well none of the units I have worked with have had a designated mess or eating area it was always done on the parade square. Though a recent addition of bleachers to the armoury has given us a preferred mess area.

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    DA Wright is on a distinguished road DA Wright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sexton View Post
    I have a question regarding canteen / stand easy...

    At my new corps, only a few cadets ever actually sit for canteen, the rest usually eat their snacks on the parade square and no one ever tells them to take their white tops off...

    I'm just wondering what the actual rule is for this.
    I would see this as a designated break area, during break times. As such, it should be a relaxed area, like in a mess, where headdress is removed and compliments not paid. This would be similar to a designated smoking/break area on a base.
    D.A. Wright
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DA Wright View Post
    The general rule is that, when in public,the wedge is on unless you are in a restaurant or place of worship. This includes malls, museums, public buildings, schools, elevators, etc. When you enter a private space such as an office, you remove your wedge.

    A wedge is worn in a car, except that it may be removed if there is insufficient head room, or on extended trips (the latter at the discretion of the senior member present).

    You remove your wedge when eating, but there is an image thing here too. You shouldn't be eating just anywhere in public. I hate it when you go to a fair or airshow or something, and cadets are there, and you see them walking about in uniform with their wedge off eating a giant stick of cotton candy. If you are having a snack, you sit, remove your wedge, eat, clean up, replace your wedge, get up and go.

    Within a military facility, wedges are always worn outdoors (flight lines and certain op areas excepted), but wedges are not generally worn indoors. There are some indoor spaces, like the parade square and hallways in large buildings like armouries where wedges are worn ad compliments paid indoors, it is up to the local commander.

    The old rule was that 'you follow the civillian practice for wearing hats, but in this day and age where people where hats while eating in a restaurant, and don't take them off for anthems or prayers, you can't follow that rule.
    Well said! You touched on a few sore points with me too.

    Removing headdress during the consumption of food and drink is a particular pet peeve of mine. Not the removing headdress part but the wandering about bit. Good manners wrt the military come from a time before our drive-thru civilization and meals were consumed at the table -usually at a home or in a mess - which are both places in which headdress is not worn. Hence the "take off your hat while eating" convention.

    But we are in a drive-thru civilization. And sitting and eating isn't always an option. I know for myself, I feel a little self-conscious without my wedge in uniform in public so I'll stand off to the side, out of the way, if I have to eat on my feet.

    The CFdress regs do say:


    2. Behaviour. Personnel in uniform shall

    comport themselves in a manner which projects a

    positive military appearance. Behaviour such as
    chewing gum, slouching, placing hands in pockets,
    smoking or eating on the street and walking hand in
    hand, is forbidden. This instruction’s objective is to
    project an image of a disciplined and self-controlled force.
    and the air cadet dress regs say

    31. Chewing gum, slouching, sauntering, placing hands in pockets, smoking or eating on the street, walking hand in hand, and similar deportment which detracts from a proud and orderly appearance in the eyes of the public is unacceptable for cadets in uniform.


    If it is a designated "break" area, well, that's different. But that doesn't give one licence to wander all over creation without a lid just because they have a bottle of water in their hand. Go into the break area - remove hat -consume - leave area with your hat back on.

    If find it interesting that it says "eating" and not "drinking". I haven't done any exhaustive study or anything but if I've noticed at all, I don't recall seeing many CF personnel with their headdress off while walking out of a Timmy's sipping on a double-double.


    gliderwingsJ-P Johnson cd1
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    Question

    Thanks for all the advice, there is just one little thing that I may have overlooked. Do you take off your headdress when sitting? (assuming you are just generally in your squadron for example.)
    FSgt. Karl Werner
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    DA Wright is on a distinguished road DA Wright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadetkarl View Post
    Thanks for all the advice, there is just one little thing that I may have overlooked. Do you take off your headdress when sitting? (assuming you are just generally in your squadron for example.)
    Not automatically, no. If you enter a lecture room/class room, or a person's office (other than for disciplinary!), you remove your wedge. If you are sitting down to eat, yes, you remove it. But if you are in a public area, and you are sitting down for a brief period, you do not remove your headdress. There aren't hard and fast rules. It used to be headdress was not removed on public transit, then direction came out indicating if one was in transit for an extended period, that headdress could be removed. The same would apply in a train/bus station or airport; if you sit in a boarding area for 10 or 15 minutes, headdress should stay on, if you're going to be longer, it may be removed. If you are selling lottery tickets or doing recruiting in the mall, and you are staffing a table display, you keep your wedge on while sitting.

    Common sense needs to prevail too. Despite the custom of removing one's hat to eat, if you are sitting down for lunch on a winter weekend FTX and it is -15, keep you toque on!
    D.A. Wright
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    I think you (DA Wright) and others answered all my questions. Thank you very much!
    Last edited by Cadetkarl; 10th February 2010 at 14:06. Reason: clarical
    FSgt. Karl Werner
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  13. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by J-P Johnson View Post
    If find it interesting that it says "eating" and not "drinking". I haven't done any exhaustive study or anything but if I've noticed at all, I don't recall seeing many CF personnel with their headdress off while walking out of a Timmy's sipping on a double-double.
    Walking and drinking, regardless of the status of ones headress would find you in a whole lot of trouble around here.

    Unless your an MP on your way to your cruiser

    Walking and talking on the phone will also solicit the attention of many a CPO. Once so far as to cause him to run out from the school sans chapeau to correct another NCdt. (not me!)

  14. #11
    Ever since I joined cadets, any time I sat down anywhere I would get a fast
    "Take off your wedge when sitting down!"
    Thanks!
    204 rocks!

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    Most Improved Member - 2009 D. Glass is on a distinguished road D. Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sexton View Post
    Okay, so for the wedge and the white top, the rules are basically the same for when you would and wouldn't wear them, correct?
    If so, I have a question regarding canteen / stand easy.
    At my old corps, it was always enforced that cadets sit and eat their snacks downstairs in their mess. When they sat down, they would take their white tops off and place them under their seats. If there were no seats left, they would still remove their white tops and usually just put it under their arm or else under someone else's seat.
    At my new corps, only a few cadets ever actually sit for canteen, the rest usually eat their snacks on the parade square and no one ever tells them to take their white tops off.
    I have on the occasional time, but I've basically given up because all the other staff cadets tell me to stop doing that and that I'm wrong and "just cause your old corps didn't eat with their white tops on doesn't mean we do the same".
    I'm just wondering what the actual rule is for this.
    I hate seeing them eating on the parade square to begin with, but we haven't given them a junior mess and we don't have anywhere else to put them apparently (I beg to differ as I've given options, but people ignore them), but if they are eating on the parade square, is their white top to be removed or not ?
    Thanks .
    IF I may touch on this and other matters of similar concern.

    When sitting, Army Cadets (our Corps at least) do not necessarily remove the headdress. We wait when in class to be told to remove it. I leave mine on, most of the time. Personal preference only.

    When eating, the headdress comes off. Period. Standing or sitting, when eating, it comes off.

    When entering an Office, we keep it on and salute at the door.

    I hope this post helps.
    Former C/Sgt Derek A.Glass
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    Disclaimer: My posts reflect my opinions only, not those of the RCAC Program, CadetWorld or 2817 H&PERC(Army)CC.

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    CWO Russell is on a distinguished road CWO Russell's Avatar
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    I don't like taking my beret off to be honest. I take it off in accordance to when I'm supposed to, but I keep it on at all times if I can help it.
    Andrew Russell
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  18. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MWO. Russell View Post
    I don't like taking my beret off to be honest. I take it off in accordance to when I'm supposed to, but I keep it on at all times if I can help it.
    Me and you would get along fine.

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  20. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DA Wright View Post
    or a person's office (other than for disciplinary!), you remove your wedge.
    Just to be a pedant here - Isn't it called the "Hatless Dance"?
    "Junior officers and NCOs who neglect to guide the thinking of their men are shirking a command responsibility."
    -- February 1955 Combat Forces Journal

  21. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Just to be a pedant here - Isn't it called the "Hatless Dance"?
    The escorts for the accused keep their lids screwed on.
    gliderwingsJ-P Johnson cd1
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  23. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by J-P Johnson View Post
    The escorts for the accused keep their lids screwed on.
    Seen. Thanks!
    "Junior officers and NCOs who neglect to guide the thinking of their men are shirking a command responsibility."
    -- February 1955 Combat Forces Journal

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    Thumbs up

    Whenever I was in my squadron I would always tell my cadets that the wedge was supposed to come off when sitting, but I now say otherwise. as for taking it off when eating, I totally agree. even when I was an AC I just knew to take it off when consuming food. It just..looks...wrong.

    some of the stuff you guys are posting makes no sense to me though. (must be an inside joke)
    FSgt. Karl Werner
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