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  1. #41
    When I was a Navy League Cadet Officer there were many times I returned salutes from reg force members. They didn't make o point of first asking if I was commissioned. Understand that they do the same thing you do only they don't get paid. They are "warranted" not commissioned in keeping with navy tradition. Don't let your cadets see you being disrespectful, just salute and move on, it really won't kill you and if anyone else sees it, it just might help reinforce that we are actually on the same side.

    Quote Originally Posted by quadrapiper View Post
    For cadet purposes the only time a (non-uniformed) civilian should generally get a salute is when they are acting as a Reviewing Officer.

    In the case of uniformed civvies acting as ROs, (police, CCG, and so on), salute those that are officers in their own organization: Sgt Bloggins of the RCMP doesn't get a salute, but Inspector Smith does.

    Anybody have a clear version of what politicians are actually entitled to, beyond the courtesy salute attached to being an RO? Does the PM rate one? Minister of Defence? Cabinet ministers in general?

    Any League personnel do not otherwise rate a salute. This includes Navy League Cadet Corps officers, unless you feel like giving one as a courtesy.

    As to the "saluting veterans" thing, I'd say... if you're reporting to one on a formal occasion.
    L.W. Allen nlsmaircsm
    Captain
    Commanding Officer
    2818 RCACC Belleville
    If you can't play a sport.....Be one

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by L. Allen View Post
    When I was a Navy League Cadet Officer there were many times I returned salutes from reg force members. They didn't make o point of first asking if I was commissioned. Understand that they do the same thing you do only they don't get paid. They are "warranted" not commissioned in keeping with navy tradition. Don't let your cadets see you being disrespectful, just salute and move on, it really won't kill you and if anyone else sees it, it just might help reinforce that we are actually on the same side.
    I see your point, but the salute that one gives to Commissioned Officers has nothing to do with the type of work that we do. when saluting a commissioned Officer, one is saluting out of respect to the trust that the Queen has placed in that person.

    It's not a sign of disrespect to not salute a NLCC Officer, nor will your cadets see it as such if you educate them properly as to when military compliments are to be paid.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by L. Allen View Post
    When I was a Navy League Cadet Officer there were many times I returned salutes from reg force members. They didn't make o point of first asking if I was commissioned. Understand that they do the same thing you do only they don't get paid. They are "warranted" not commissioned in keeping with navy tradition. Don't let your cadets see you being disrespectful, just salute and move on, it really won't kill you and if anyone else sees it, it just might help reinforce that we are actually on the same side.
    Given the amount of reg force members that don't know what the CIC is, I'm not sure they would know what a Navy League Officer is either.

    I do think you guys do a good job - got a lot of army cadets from the NL this year.
    Captain MK Wilson, RSW
    gsm

  4. #44
    Although the NL officer isn't commissioned, they aren't in the CF, right? Then that means they are a civilian. Which means that CF pers can salute them as a courtesy.

    2Lt McInnes, Admin O
    2834 RCACC (Artillery)
    Yorkton, SK, Canada

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabrwock View Post
    Although the NL officer isn't commissioned, they aren't in the CF, right? Then that means they are a civilian. Which means that CF pers can salute them as a courtesy.

    I'd say that's true. The realtionship gets a bit weird though. I have been in the company of a CIC SLt attached to a sea cadet corps who, as a matter of course, saluted the NL lieutenant commander from the corps they are affiliated with and this same NL officer who, as a matter of course who salutes me, a captain.

    Given the relationship between the NLCC and RCSC (not only through the league but the close working relationship many corps have), you'd think somebody would have worked out the protocol by now.
    gliderwingsJ-P Johnson cd1
    Barrie Ontario
    The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

  6. #46
    (1 out of 3 is good enough - salute away. I just wouldn't give them 3 reason when only 1 fits protocol.)

    Seems to be good enough for the Col of the regiment, the CDS and Prince Edward.....

    (Just out of curiosity, when they enter, do they do an about turn to face the arch?)

    No, you enter regular glass doors, walk about 25 feet and halt at the arch. The battle honours, portrait of the Queen and White Battallion plaque are directly ahead of you on the other side of the parade square.
    L.W. Allen nlsmaircsm
    Captain
    Commanding Officer
    2818 RCACC Belleville
    If you can't play a sport.....Be one

  7. #47
    here, here

    Quote Originally Posted by J-P Johnson View Post
    I'd say that's true. The realtionship gets a bit weird though. I have been in the company of a CIC SLt attached to a sea cadet corps who, as a matter of course, saluted the NL lieutenant commander from the corps they are affiliated with and this same NL officer who, as a matter of course who salutes me, a captain.

    Given the relationship between the NLCC and RCSC (not only through the league but the close working relationship many corps have), you'd think somebody would have worked out the protocol by now.
    L.W. Allen nlsmaircsm
    Captain
    Commanding Officer
    2818 RCACC Belleville
    If you can't play a sport.....Be one

  8. #48
    I am not a NL officer any longer. I really don't think they cared, they just saluted and carried on.

    Perhaps it would benefit everyone to look up the history of the salute. It was meant to be a friendly gesture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadpat Sailor View Post
    Given the amount of reg force members that don't know what the CIC is, I'm not sure they would know what a Navy League Officer is either.

    I do think you guys do a good job - got a lot of army cadets from the NL this year.
    L.W. Allen nlsmaircsm
    Captain
    Commanding Officer
    2818 RCACC Belleville
    If you can't play a sport.....Be one

  9. #49
    For the "dismiss", when I was a cadet, We had to do the 3 paces and halt... Until someone read the 201 and corrected that... So anywhere I went as an CI or NL Officer, if I was in a position to have it corrected, I did, if not, I made it known to the XO and it was soon changed... Now I just tell the CO that his cadets are doing it wrong

    And for the salutes... I don't push the issue anymore. When I was CO (NLCC) I told my cadets to salute any officer (NL, CIC, police, whatever). I also salute higher ranking officers than me (got a few less a to salute a year back). I expected that the CO of the RCSCC, that I was partner with, would return the favor and ask the same thing of AT LEAST his cadets... It usually works. Even some officers will salute NL officers.

    If they don't, that's ok too.

    But PLEASE, all of you CIC out there, If a NL cadet or officer salutes you, remember that you have to salute them back ! (see ref in the 201, all salutes are to be returned...). Correct me if I'm wrong...

    It's easier for the cadets (9 to 12) anyways, we don't have to tell them, you salute us but not them...

  10. #50
    This is the relevant quote from the 201:
    4. Service individuals receiving a compliment
    shall acknowledge it.
    Whether that means returning a salute or simply making the person saluting you aware that you've seen the salute varies depending on who you talk to.

    I would argue that if a salute is given where none is warranted (eg. someone saluting an O/NCdt), pointing out the error and correcting it is acknowledgment of said compliment, but that's just my opinion.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

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  12. #51
    Lt Ferreira is on a distinguished road Lt Ferreira's Avatar
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    Our squadron takes 3 paces then a halt and left turn, and we carry on. The reason for this is after 3 paces you merely hit a wall...
    Capt Drew Ferreira
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  13. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabrwock View Post
    Although the NL officer isn't commissioned, they aren't in the CF, right? Then that means they are a civilian. Which means that CF pers can salute them as a courtesy.

    Very true. However, that would mean you would have to salute all NLCC Officers or none of them using that logic. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but you couldn't institute a rule where you would only salute NLCC Officers that that wear a higher rank than you are and not ones equivalent or subordinate to your rank. That would not be keeping in line with the intent of the courtesy salute for civilians.

    I'm not looking to find ways not to salute NLCC Officers, or trying to make it sound like I don't respect the work that is done by NLCC Officers. I just think it's important to follow proper military protocol. There are many other ways of showing respect than a salute.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

  14. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post
    This is the relevant quote from the 201:

    Whether that means returning a salute or simply making the person saluting you aware that you've seen the salute varies depending on who you talk to.

    I would argue that if a salute is given where none is warranted (eg. someone saluting an O/NCdt), pointing out the error and correcting it is acknowledgment of said compliment, but that's just my opinion.

    JB
    I have no problem with this...

    but Mid(NL) (O/NCdt of the NL) are saluted by NL cadets... All officers of the NL are to be saluted by NL cadets... I'm looking for my reference, but can't seem to see anything yet...

    so other O/Ncdt, will have to tell a 9-10-11-12 year old kid, you don't need to salute me I don't have a commission yet... I can already see the confusion in some eyes !

  15. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by marc.sigouin View Post
    I have no problem with this...

    but Mid(NL) (O/NCdt of the NL) are saluted by NL cadets... All officers of the NL are to be saluted by NL cadets... I'm looking for my reference, but can't seem to see anything yet...

    so other O/Ncdt, will have to tell a 9-10-11-12 year old kid, you don't need to salute me I don't have a commission yet... I can already see the confusion in some eyes !
    Since the 201 doesn't apply to NL Cadets, I don't see any reason why it's wrong for them to salute NCdts.

    But they should be corrected once they move over to the CCM.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

  16. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post
    Very true. However, that would mean you would have to salute all NLCC Officers or none of them using that logic. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but you couldn't institute a rule where you would only salute NLCC Officers that that wear a higher rank than you are and not ones equivalent or subordinate to your rank. That would not be keeping in line with the intent of the courtesy salute for civilians.
    I never thought of it this way... But still, you don't salute every civilian down the street, so you could limit yourself to those wearing a uniform and of a certain rank and above no ? Isn't it the same (or almost) as not saluting Mr Bob and saluting the PM or a civilian RO ?? You select which civilian you salute according to something right ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Juice
    I'm not looking to find ways not to salute NLCC Officers, or trying to make it sound like I don't respect the work that is done by NLCC Officers. I just think it's important to follow proper military protocol. There are many other ways of showing respect than a salute.
    Got that - no problem

  17. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by marc.sigouin View Post
    I never thought of it this way... But still, you don't salute every civilian down the street, so you could limit yourself to those wearing a uniform and of a certain rank and above no ? Isn't it the same (or almost) as not saluting Mr Bob and saluting the PM or a civilian RO ?? You select which civilian you salute according to something right ?
    Perhaps, but respect salutes for civilians are generally for those you respect as a person, not so much because of the rank they wear as a NLCC Officer, at least that is how I understand the intent of that paragraph in the 201.

    We could debate this until we're blue in the face, but that the end of the day, it comes down to how you interpret the 201.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

  18. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post
    But they should be corrected once they move over to the CCM.

    JB
    They are... Plus, back when I joined the NL as an officer, they were told this :

    1- don't salute NCM (ok....) apparently the work for a living ??
    2- don't salute O/NCdt (ok still....)
    3- don't salute those NL officer.... don't even talk to them, they don't exist.

    Now that #3 was really hard. We had some good cadets leaving is for the CCM after 3 years with us, good drill, good deportment and BANG they could'nt even say a good morning without being chewed out by the DPO and DO... Well that's mostly finish now, we get at the least a good day sir...

    And for the dismiss : I looked it up, for our cadets, it's the basic righ turn. Salute if there is an officer present on parade or during the drill class. Then 3 paces marching off, then go about to where you need to go...
    Reference : http://www.navyleague.ca/admin/pubs/NL_225e.pdf, page 12 of the document (page 16 of the PDF file)

  19. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post

    We could debate this until we're blue in the face, but that the end of the day, it comes down to how you interpret the 201.

    JB
    I thought is was how the Commanding Officer interpret the 201?
    Catherine Carter
    Former Cadet

  20. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by marc.sigouin View Post
    They are... Plus, back when I joined the NL as an officer, they were told this :

    1- don't salute NCM (ok....) apparently the work for a living ??
    2- don't salute O/NCdt (ok still....)
    3- don't salute those NL officer.... don't even talk to them, they don't exist.

    Now that #3 was really hard. We had some good cadets leaving is for the CCM after 3 years with us, good drill, good deportment and BANG they could'nt even say a good morning without being chewed out by the DPO and DO... Well that's mostly finish now, we get at the least a good day sir...
    That's unfortunate. It's too bad that some think that if you don't salute someone, you shouldn't even acknowledge their presence.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

  21. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Juice View Post

    We could debate this until we're blue in the face, but that the end of the day, it comes down to how you interpret the 201.

    JB
    And I might add that your way sounds good after thinking about it.

    Actually, I really do not want to argue... whatever works in your own part of the woods is what I usually do... But I guess that someday, someone upstairs will settle this on your side of the house... On ours, it's already on print...

    Quote Originally Posted by NL8 - Navy League Cadet Regulations
    4.12 COMMAND IN RELATION TO SEA CADETS
    1. Navy League Cadet Officers, including Division Officers, have no authority over Canadian Forces Cadet Instructor Cadre (CIC) (Sea Cadet) Officers or Royal Canadian Sea Cadets, regardless of relative ranks. Similarly, CIC Officers and Royal Canadian Sea Cadets have no authority over Navy League Cadet Officers or Cadets.
    2. Notwithstanding the above paragraph, it is expected that all CIC Officers, Sea Cadets, Navy League Cadet Officers and Cadets, recognize each-other and their respective roles in the cadet program. By showing common courtesy at all times and the appropriate military courtesies when appropriate; it will provide for a more cohesive group and working environment.
    I have to follow these regulations, the same that you have to follow the 201 WRT saluting others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juice
    That's unfortunate. It's too bad that some think that if you don't salute someone, you shouldn't even acknowledge their presence.
    Those "bad apples" have since been filtered out. The working relationship is really better now... Thankfully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carter
    I thought is was how the Commanding Officer interpret the 201?
    Basically the saluting between CIC / NL Off. / cadets... Is settle with both units CO's depending how the relation is between each of them... Most of the NL Corps are doing their training in the same building as their respective RCSCC... So, sometimes it gets ... fun ...
    Last edited by marc.sigouin; 13th December 2009 at 21:44. Reason: Adding replies to other posts

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