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  1. #1
    Pilot824 is on a distinguished road Pilot824's Avatar
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    Exclamation Drum Major Uniform

    I was recently confronted by my CO and was asked to remove my gauntlets as we were only wearing C2 Dress that night and not C1. As far as I know, you must wear the gauntlets because it is apart of your uniform. Yet he wants to see it written in an order saying "Drum Major Gauntlets must be worn" or something of that nature.

    Unfortunately as far as i know, all the Drum Major standards are passed down/taught and there isn't really any SET Rules on how to do things... Its all at the Drum Majors discretion with reasonable limits (like how to march and stuff like that cant be changed, but how the band is laid out is their discretion).

    Yet i have NEVER seen a Drum Major without a mace/sash/gauntlets. Its what goes with the position...

    Anyway, I was wondering if there were any Drum Major's out there that know of a link to the CATO stating what the Drum Major's dresses are and when they can wear which parts of the uniform at what time (in particular the gauntlets).

    The only reason why im so concerned about this is that to me, being a Drum Major isn't really a given... in a way its sort of like a Trade. You can only be taught HOW to be a Drum Major by ANOTHER Drum major, no one else can teach you properly of how it all works, therefore its an apprenticeship.
    CI. Andrew Lampert powerwingsaircsm
    Supply Officer
    599 Marc Garneau Squadron
    University of Western Ontario - B.Eng.Sci Software Engineering Program

  2. #2
    The DM is a person who stands in front of the Band and directs them where to go. There is no need of mace, sash or gauntlets for drum majors. In fact, I have known several DM who did not even had musical backgrounds.

    Drum Major standards are given in the Air Cadet band manual, in the 202 ,and in the 201. I believe CATO just states what they can wear.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Carter View Post
    The DM is a person who stands in front of the Band and directs them where to go. There is no need of mace, sash or gauntlets for drum majors. In fact, I have known several DM who did not even had musical backgrounds.

    Drum Major standards are given in the Air Cadet band manual, in the 202 ,and in the 201. I believe CATO just states what they can wear.
    I would say at the very least, the mace would be required for signalling purposes. It's hard for a band to hear a command being called when they are playing. Other than that, it's all flare.

    JB
    Run until you can't. Then run some more

  4. #4
    The only reference for dress regulations for Air Cadet DMs I've found is within CATO 55-04 (Air Cadet Dress Regs).

    The mace, sash and gauntlets are mentioned in para 15b which is in the section:

    AUTHORIZED OPTIONAL UNIFORM/ITEMS – AT NO EXPENSE TO THE PUBLIC
    Unless there is some supplementary order outside CATOs that I'm not aware of, this indicates to me that they are not mandatory.

    I'd be wary of any "Standards" are handed down by word of mouth. Anything passed only in that manner rarely stay "standard" for long.
    gliderwingsJ-P Johnson cd1
    Barrie Ontario
    The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by J-P Johnson View Post
    Unless there is some supplementary order outside CATOs that I'm not aware of, this indicates to me that they are not mandatory.

    I'd be wary of any "Standards" are handed down by word of mouth. Anything passed only in that manner rarely stay "standard" for long.
    Indeed. Actually the only things needed to denote a drum major is a sash/baldric and the mace. Everything else is just bling. When I was DM of my pipe band (and just found out last night I will be again!), I couldn't wear gaunlets because of the cuffs of our doublets. So usually I wore no gloves, because I couldn't hold the mace properly with regular white gloves. And I have seen many cadet and CF drum majors not wearing gauntlets.

    I also at times, in full dress, wore a feather bonnet and my claymore. It's is all about show, but it is not always needed. There is no real dress standard out there. I watched last night a video from the summer of a RCMP pipe band from the east coast. The DM wasn't wearing any highland kit at all, just regular RCMP rig. But he had his mace.
    Lt(N) Nathan T. Brown, Sr.
    gsm4cd para
    armycsm1

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Lampert View Post
    I was recently confronted by my CO and was asked to remove my gauntlets as we were only wearing C2 Dress that night and not C1.

    The only reason why im so concerned about this is that to me, being a Drum Major isn't really a given... in a way its sort of like a Trade. You can only be taught HOW to be a Drum Major by ANOTHER Drum major, no one else can teach you properly of how it all works, therefore its an apprenticeship.
    Most mil. band DMs I've seen only wear their sash and gauntlets on big parades like Annual or Remembrance Day, not usual parade nights. Also, some squadrons and CSTCs I've seen have a "nicer" mace they use for those parades and another that is more for practice, etc. In the CATOS, it says optional equipment that MAY be worn by the DM are a mace, a sash, and gauntlets. It doesn't specify that gauntlets can only be worn with C1s, or that they have to be worn with all dress, to my knowledge at least. My squadron is only getting a sash this year; we haven't had one since the band was started which was a long time ago. This isn't necessary stuff, but you can wear it.
    OCdt Podkowka, Dylan
    Edmonton Gliding Centre

  7. #7
    CW Member of the Year - 2009 Andy is on a distinguished road Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampert View Post
    I was recently confronted by my CO and was asked to remove my gauntlets as we were only wearing C2 Dress that night and not C1. As far as I know, you must wear the gauntlets because it is apart of your uniform. Yet he wants to see it written in an order saying "Drum Major Gauntlets must be worn" or something of that nature.
    At the very least, you can request to wear them on a regular basis as to protect your hands (presuming they actually do help with that)
    CV Anders Lau
    759 Falcon RCACS

  8. #8
    I seem to remember a mace with chain on it tends to cut the DM once in awhile, thus the gauntlets. No chain, no need, unless in C1s.

    The sash and white belts would be for C1s only too.

    Best reference would be the 202, the Band Drill Manual, or the CFP 265, the Reg Force Dress Regs upon which the cadets dress regs are derived from.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Cod Father View Post
    CFP 265, the Reg Force Dress Regs
    That would be the Canadian Forces Dress Instructions -- equally applicable to the Reserve Force, not just the Reg Force.

    qdjm cd nlsm

  10. #10
    The dress requirements of a drum major are not mentioned any where; at least anywhere I have read (and i have read a lot with my work on the CPU). The CATO outlines what items (optional) may be worn and states that they are not to come at public expense. When it boils down to it, dress is to be decieded by the CO of the unit (as long as it is not in direct violation of a higher order). My friend, I am sorry to say it, but if your CO does not wish you to wear gauntlets in any order of dress below C1s.. then you shall not wear gauntlets in any order of dress below C1s.
    R Molitor
    Lt (N)
    "Leadership is not making decisions; anyone can do that. It is also not standing behind decisions; again, an easy thing to do. True leadership is admitting when you're wrong."

  11. #11
    Oh Jeeze Andy :P You didnt trust me? hehe BTW you missed a good day of flying today.. anywho, yeah, its not mandatory and im imagining its gunna be COs descretion (sp?). As i was saying on Saturday though that usually it comes down to what the Dm wants..so im not sure
    Officer Cadet Cody Wylie
    Royal Military College of Canada
    GPS 2k9 CRGS||PPS 2k10 BFC

  12. #12

    Drum Major Assistant?

    At my squadron there has always been a back-up drum major, and being one myself, i was wondering if we are entitled to wear the drum major badges, in the cato it says nothing about a backup. In fact the only thing it really says is that the drum major are appointed by the CO


    Hoping for a quick response, Sgt Sargent,M,
    527 Simonds Air
    WO1 Matthew Sargent
    Squadron Cadet Commander
    of 527 Simonds RCACS
    aircsmpowerwingsrclcme

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by airhead233 View Post
    At my squadron there has always been a back-up drum major, and being one myself, i was wondering if we are entitled to wear the drum major badges, in the cato it says nothing about a backup. In fact the only thing it really says is that the drum major are appointed by the CO


    Hoping for a quick response, Sgt Sargent,M,
    527 Simonds Air
    Well, if you are presented with the badge you can assume you are permitted to wear it, however, there is no such thing as a 'back up' drum major, that position falls with the drum sergeant. Thus being the drum sergeant you are not entitled to wear a drum major badge, sorry to burst your bubble.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by airhead233 View Post
    At my squadron there has always been a back-up drum major, and being one myself, i was wondering if we are entitled to wear the drum major badges, in the cato it says nothing about a backup. In fact the only thing it really says is that the drum major are appointed by the CO


    Hoping for a quick response, Sgt Sargent,M,
    527 Simonds Air
    This is a question for you CO. They are the only one who can answer this question.
    R Molitor
    Lt (N)
    "Leadership is not making decisions; anyone can do that. It is also not standing behind decisions; again, an easy thing to do. True leadership is admitting when you're wrong."

  15. #15
    There can be up to 2 drum major badges being worn in one unit. One for the drum major of the full band, and if the unit has a smaller band for parade nights and such, and that person is drum major, they can wear the badge as well. If you are not the appointed drum major of one of those 2 things, you can't wear the badge.
    2Lt Silliker

  16. #16
    g.needham is on a distinguished road g.needham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillikerc View Post
    There can be up to 2 drum major badges being worn in one unit. One for the drum major of the full band, and if the unit has a smaller band for parade nights and such, and that person is drum major, they can wear the badge as well. If you are not the appointed drum major of one of those 2 things, you can't wear the badge.
    CATOs 1-(14-21) http://www.cadets.ca/coats-saioc/cat...aspx?ID=117604 have certain requirements for drum major, however these requirements are contradictory to the CATO for Air Cadet Music Badges where it says there are no requirements. Also, it states that there can only be one Drum Major at a time so to extrapolate only one person at a time is entitled to wear the badge at one time.
    Now for my squadron regular parades I wear C-2 dress with sash and a "practice" mace but no gauntlets. I use our gauntlets and ceremonial mace for big parades (i.e. ACR, semi-annual, Battle of Britain, Rememberence day, and other time deemed appropriate).
    WOII NEEDHAM
    504 BLATCHFORD FIELD RCACS
    Overlord of everything. DoM
    *CERTI PROVEHENDI*
    canadaabaircsm1scotlandrcairc

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