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  1. #81
    Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_castor
    Units in large urban centres would probably be affected less by higher enrolment standards but it would probably very difficult to find officers for the more "remote" units. Unlike the Reg Force who can look at their staffing problems form a national perspective, we have to look a it form a very local point of view and sometimes the pool of potential CIC officers in a community is very small. What if no one is available with the right qualifications ?

    Should we aim for higher educational standards ? Absolutely. Can we do this without severely affecting some units ? Probably not. We should, in this and with many other things, aim for higher but remain flexible.
    Which is precisely where we are at now.

    As a point of interest, we used to enrol people at the HQ level (sans CFRC) and "just about anyone" could get in. Some of those officers are the finest I've ever come across. A lengthy education doesn't necessarily make a better, well rounded individual.

    On the flip side, someone going through the current CFRC enrolment procedure may walk into the interview with a university education and dip the interview based on maturity, self presence or what have you. (In some cases the HUGE student loan debt can cause a "adverse" item to show up.)

    It may not be the best system, but it's the one we're working with right now.

    J

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Lt(N) Jean Cyr
    On the flip side, someone going through the current CFRC enrolment procedure may walk into the interview with a university education and dip the interview based on maturity, self presence or what have you.
    Someone without a university education would be as likely to do the same -- in that particular case, the education of the candidate is irrelevant. But the real question is:

    Given that the presence of a certain level of education doesn't guarantee good candidates, nor does its absence guarantee bad ones, oughtn't we to get rid of the minimum education standard alltogether?

  3. #83
    Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr has a reputation beyond repute Jean Ann Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slt McKay

    Given that the presence of a certain level of education doesn't guarantee good candidates, nor does its absence guarantee bad ones, oughtn't we to get rid of the minimum education standard alltogether?
    LOL - I personally think we have....by permitting a GED

    J

  4. #84
    I'll attest to that. Speaking as someone who made a few poor decisions in the past regarding education and took the GED exams to get a high school diploma...

    Granted, I don't have any problem with my university courses.

    But the GED was something that I didn't study for, and I achieved honours levels on each componet. How does six hours of examinations replace a high school education? Quite frankly, it doesn't at all. The GED just proves that you can function in society.

    Personally, I think that CF candidates who come to the table with a GED should be prepared to defend themselves with their work and life experience, as one without that experience would be lacking the 'rounding-out' that the high school experience provides.

    Neill - obviously a reasonable standard needs to exist. I'm just not convinced that requiring every officer in the CIC Branch to have a university degree is the current answer.

    I would sleep better at night, though, knowing a Major/C Adm O at a CSTC at lesat does the same kind of thing for a living. Education has become so irrelavant on the CSTC scale that Pra Reg didn't even offer space on their electronic form to list if you were a high school drop-out, or had an PhD in managerial science.

    -R.
    Capt Rob Caswell powerwings
    Commanding Officer
    52 (City of Calgary) RCACS
    Per Scientiam Ad Astra
    How old would you be, if you didn't know how old you were?

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Caz
    Neill - obviously a reasonable standard needs to exist. I'm just not convinced that requiring every officer in the CIC Branch to have a university degree is the current answer.
    No pun intended, but it's just a matter of degrees. I envision a different standard from what I take to be the majority opinion here.

    One question that's never been answered here is "what's different about the CIC that makes it okay for us to have a lower educational standard than the rest of the Forces"?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Slt McKay
    No pun intended, but it's just a matter of degrees. I envision a different standard from what I take to be the majority opinion here.
    No worries, sounds like a great vision.

    One question that's never been answered here is "what's different about the CIC that makes it okay for us to have a lower educational standard than the rest of the Forces"?
    Well, I don't have a definitive answer, but being the creative guy I am, I can give you two different responses:

    1) Just like different occupations in the CF have different medical requirements, our eduacation requirement as CIC reflects the nature of our job.

    Response 1, as you see, doesn't hold much weight in an argument. In fact, it's something my philosphy prof would call, well, something I can't repeat here.

    Now, the more likely answer:

    2) The history of the CIC fighting to become a Branch equal to all others in the CF has opened up a corporate culture within the CF that sees us as inferior, sub-standard, or quite frankly, not number one priority, as the DND/CF grapple with more pressing issues of retention and active deployments.

    Simply put, we've been delayed from hitting our evolutionary stage of an educational standard in-line with every other CF officer. The CIC as we know it today is very young, and our 'independence' as an equal branch is always contentious.

    Hence, the BAC. But they only meet twice a year, and no matter what standard they agree on, someone will be left out.

    Life isn't fair. But we could make it a little more equitable.

    -R.
    Capt Rob Caswell powerwings
    Commanding Officer
    52 (City of Calgary) RCACS
    Per Scientiam Ad Astra
    How old would you be, if you didn't know how old you were?

  7. #87

    CIC Enrollment

    I have some questions about CIC enrollment that the CO of the sqn I work with can't answer (and won't find answers to).

    Do I really have to do the physical fitness self-test in the CF Employment Application? I was always told that there is no physical fitness test for CIC applicants, just medical. So is it required that I do the self-test anyway?
    Capt Eric Coomber
    CO 2828 RCACC

  8. #88
    From the looks of some CIC officers I know, it doesn't look like they'll pass any physical exams soon...

    I don't remember what the form for CF application said about the CIC. Best to ask others.

    CC
    Me

    Band 02-Staff 03-Staff 04-Staff 05

  9. #89
    There is no physical test, just a medical
    you can always call your local recruitment office with those types of questions, they are always so nice to me
    ASlt Dominique Duguay-RCSCC 40 Falkland

  10. #90
    JonathonNess is on a distinguished road JonathonNess's Avatar
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    do the self test anywas because if and when you want to get your commission, your going to have to be physiclly fit, or if you pursude a CF Career full time

    so by doing it, you prove to them many things such as fit, initivie, willingness to go above and beyond ect
    OCdt Jonathon Ness
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  11. #91
    CWiki Contributor of the Year - 2009 ctjj.stevenson is on a distinguished road ctjj.stevenson's Avatar
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    Hi there!

    Just like everyone here said, there are no physical test other than the medical. However, the medical Warrant Officer that conducted my medical did recommend that I get in better shape, just for my body's needs, and not for my job within the Canadian Forces.

    Good day!
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    Commandant en second CCMRC LONGUEUIL

  12. #92
    Agreed, the fitness test is not given to CIC applicants; However, I would also recommend that you do the self prep. It doesn't look hard, but if you haven't really been physically active in a while, it may take some time to get back in shape. It never hurts to be in shape. It will only help you in the long run. (No punn intended)

    Back when I did my BOQ in Prairie Region there was no PT, however I have heard of other regions doing it. So this would be of great benefit to work on.
    Also should you choose like I did, to pursue a full time career in the CF, you will have an easier time as well.
    Nick P. Kucher swasmcd
    Lieutenant (Navy)
    OpsO
    HMCS OTTAWA


  13. #93

    Air CIC Questions

    Hello I have few questions about CIC since I age out this year.

    1.) What is Basic Officer training at Borden like?
    2.) How long do you have to be a Ocdt. before you can get second leutienant?
    3.) what are the trade/qulifycations (sorry for the spelling) you can take
    4.) what traing topics do you cover during basic trianing?
    5.) Is there any hardcore PT during training?

    Thanks In Advance

  14. #94

    Air

    Sorry for all the questions

    Is there a course you can tke to teach search and rescue


    Thanks In Advance for the help

  15. #95
    CWiki Contributor of the Year - 2009 ctjj.stevenson is on a distinguished road ctjj.stevenson's Avatar
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    Good afternoon Cpl Smith!

    I hope that you are doing well. As for your enrollement into the Cadet Instructor Cadre, it isn't as easy as just finishing your years as a cadet. Here is what you will have to go through to become a member of your unit's officer personnel:
    • Does your CO need your services as a member of the personnel.
    • Then does he or she have any room of their "ardoise" (or list of CIC officers that can be paid) for the unit
    • If he or she does have room for an extra officer, and recommends you, you will then be permitted to begin the enrolment procedure to become a CIC officer.

    After your enrolment as a CIC officer, you will have to do the following obligatory courses (note however that they are going to change soon):
    • the Basic Officer's Qualification Course (10 days)
    • the Military Occupational Course (8 days) or the Junior Officer Leadership Course (17 days) according to your element
    • the Lieutenant's Qualification Course (8 days)
    • the Captain's Qualification Course (8 days)
    Other then these course, here is a list of other course which are available to CIC officers in the Central Region (according to http://www.central.cadets.forces.gc....courses_e.html):
    • Commanding Officer Course (COC)
    • Unit Human Rights Advisor Course
    • Cadet Unit Administration Officer
    • Cadet Unit Supply Officer
    • Band Officer
    • Range Safety Officer (Air Rifle)
    • Range Safety Officer (Small Bore/Air Rifle)
    • Abseil Instructor
    • Orienteering Instructor
    • Basic Canoe Instructor
    • Canoe Trip Leader
    • Cold Weather Indoctrination Course
    • Tender Course (A2-Tender)

    Here are the requirement of promotion within the Cadet Instructor Cadre:

    To become an Officer Cadet or a Naval Cadet:
    • Completion of the Canadian Forces enrolment procedure

    To become a Second Lieutenant or an Acting Sub Lieutenant:
    • Completing the Basic Officer's Qualification Course; and
    • Served at least one year as an OCdt or NCdt. (To note that after 3 years of service as an OCdt or NCdt and that you did not pass your BOQ, you will be "kicked" out of the Canadian Forces).

    To become a Lieutenant or a Sub Lieutenant
    • Completing the Lieutenant Qualification Course; and
    • Served at least one year as a Second Lieutenant or and Acting Sub Lieutenant

    To become a Captain or a Lieutenant[N]
    • Completing the Captain Qualification Course;
    • Served at least one year as a Second Lieutenant or and Acting Sub Lieutenant; and
    • there is a position open at your unit for a Capt/Lt(N)

    Lastly, as for what I know, no CIC officer could take a Search & Rescue course because, as CIC officer, we are trained to work with young people.

    I hope this helps!
    Last edited by ctjj.stevenson; 24th December 2004 at 11:14.
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  16. #96
    CWiki Contributor of the Year - 2009 ctjj.stevenson is on a distinguished road ctjj.stevenson's Avatar
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    Oh yes corporal ... Never be sorry to ask a question. The worst thing that could happen is that someone could not have an answer for you. Asking questions is a sign of intelligence. Lastly, I use this forum myself to educate myself, and to educate others, therefore, questions are welcomed!
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    Lieutenant Christophe Terry JJ Stevenson, CD, AdeC
    Commandant en second CCMRC LONGUEUIL

  17. #97
    lol plus the paper work takes some time. Took me 6 months from teh time I put my first papers in until I got sworn in. Plus they always don'toffer the courses when you need them, you aren't assured the courses if you apply for them which makes it hard for students sometimes.

    Other then that.... fun stuff.
    Lt Karl Schultz-Pilot QGI
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  18. #98
    CWiki Contributor of the Year - 2009 ctjj.stevenson is on a distinguished road ctjj.stevenson's Avatar
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    I would also recommend that you do take some time to learn as a CI before becoming a CIC officer. I was a CI for three years and looking back, it was the best thing that could have happend to me. I was able to learn a great deal, without the stresses of being a CIC officer. +, CIC officers are promoted quite quickly if they take their courses at the "right" times (I've been a CIC officer for a year and a half now, and I am already going to be doing my LTQ this winter).

    Do not rush your through your officer training because that could hurt you in the long run. Start the learning experience. You do not learn everything that you need to know at the RCIS. The corps is the perfect training ground.
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    Commandant en second CCMRC LONGUEUIL

  19. #99

    Air Thankyou!

    Thank you fro all the help and advice

    Merry Christmass

  20. #100

    Air

    What is the "tender A-2 cource?

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