Retiring vs. Quitting

[The Blue Tory]

What do you think is the difference between the 2 in terms of leaving cadets?

[grass_roots]

that's a rather fuzzy question bud

[AMothfromWpg]

quitting - whatever the reason, you quit
retiring- you quit with permission from the unit- for a reason,
retiring is the more dignified and respectful process of the 2.... retiring also is aging out...

[Bub]

quitting - whatever the reason, you quit
retiring- you quit with permission from the unit- for a reason,
retiring is the more dignified and respectful process of the 2.... retiring also is aging out...
Thats pretty good.

I would also say:
Quiting: You are leaving there and then type syndrome.
Retiring: Pre meditated, announced that you will leave on 'X' date. Therefore it's not coming from left field.

[JGallagher]

I see absouluty no problem with leaving a unit!! You have lost intrest then leave in a diginifided manner!! Dont rant and rave over it. Do it quietly, say thank you and tip your hat.

[N. McKay]

What do you think is the difference between the 2 in terms of leaving cadets?

I would suggest that you retire if you stay until you age out, or if you release at some convenient time shortly before ageing out. Examples might include releasing right after the ACR if you're going to age out the next October, or if you're about to start university.

[An Aussie ANZAC]

yeah Quiting is a term saying.. i am leaving tonight, i had it, i am out of here etc where retiring like bud said you give notice etc.

eg i retired from cadet, not quit as i gave noticed that the former dinner for the unit is my last cadet activitie. etc. so its was more a retirement dinner!!

Quiting - Sudden
Retiring - Notice given.

[The Blue Tory]

To clarify...

I am already aged out, and have been for a while...

This is for terminology sake...

Say a person quits for reasons other than schooling, and does not age out, would this person be considered retired

This is how I see the two terms

If you retire, you have done as much as you could accomplish during your time as a cadet, and are leaving because of age or leaving for post secondary. A retiring person gives notice that you must leave at a certain date, (for aging out this is done by giving your birthday upon registration), and are recognized as leaving and entering retirement from the cadet program during your last cadet night's closing parade.

Quitting on the other hand, is just deciding that you don't want to do it anymore, and you still have option to return if you change your mind.

[Bub]

To clarify...

I am already aged out, and have been for a while...

This is for terminology sake...

Say a person quits for reasons other than schooling, and does not age out, would this person be considered retired
But you have already stated they have quit therfore they can't do both. In my opinion the reason doesn't matter. It's the process in which they leave which depicts which cat they fall into.

[The Blue Tory]

But you have already stated they have quit therfore they can't do both. In my opinion the reason doesn't matter. It's the process in which they leave which depicts which cat they fall into.

What processes do you think determine the category?

[wingnut]

I guess in some ways as an example it could be like and
*Honourable Discharge
and a
*Dis-hounorable Discharge.

[Bub]

What processes do you think determine the category?


This process:

Thats pretty good.

I would also say:
Quiting: You are leaving there and then type syndrome.
Retiring: Pre meditated, announced that you will leave on 'X' date. Therefore it's not coming from left field.

[brennan]

you quit because you're sick of it and give up on the system
you retire because you accept you have achieved all you can and wish to leave before you get sick of it all ;)

you also retire when you get too old (like me) to be a cadet...

[Lancaster]

Well as many of you know the "Portsmouth Field Gun Acc" and i play by there moto "Winners Never Quit, Quiters Never Win"

:o and i suggest its true

[The Blue Tory]

Now that the 2 terms have sufficiently been defined... and seperated...

Can a person who quit, say that they have retired?

[Fufu_65]

i think that no a person who quit cannot say they have retired....because either they did not leave in a respectable manner *i.e with rants and raves*...or they just had had it and quit with no previous waRNING...AND since we say that retiring u give notice that so and so a date will be ur last night..no u cannot quit and then say u've retired ...from the definitions we've given...

but they CAN say they've retired...but they REALLY haven't...

-SS

[Aprile]

yeah Quiting is a term saying.. i am leaving tonight, i had it, i am out of here etc where retiring like bud said you give notice etc.

eg i retired from cadet, not quit as i gave noticed that the former dinner for the unit is my last cadet activitie. etc. so its was more a retirement dinner!!

Quiting - Sudden
Retiring - Notice given.

Not always true... when I left my corps I told them a few weeks in advance, then turned in my uniform.

[The Blue Tory]

Not always true... when I left my corps I told them a few weeks in advance, then turned in my uniform.

But now you are a CI...

you don't have the option of returning to the cadet system...

[sgt4life]

Not always true... when I left my corps I told them a few weeks in advance, then turned in my uniform.

Agreed. That can still count as quitting, even though you're leaving in good faith and advnce notice was given, depending on the reason.

Acceptable reasons for leaving cadets (IMO):
Moving away at age 18
Starting University/College in a high-demand program
Turning 19
Joining the reserves (I know you CAN be a member of both, but I wouldn't recommend it)

Only these reasons would be acceptable in a general way for a retirement as opposed to simply quitting. Other reasons could also be acceptable, but it would depend on the individual and their circumstances.

[KarlSchultz]

My situation was that my CIC paperwork went in in September. Techically I didn't age out until Feb.13 but I felt that leaveing during the X-Mas break would be easier for everyone. That way, the first parade back we do the change of command and the rest of the year they have a new WO1.

I considered it Retireing. My officers knew of it and the only cadet that knew was my sister.

From what I can understand of the topic so far most of you would also consider it retireing. any other views????

Oh ya. leaving early was also to help expediat my CIC paperwork. Hasn't worked as far as I can tell. I should be in in the next couple of weeks or so :(

[Nick]

Quitting: Just deciding that it's not the thing for you... due to whatever circumstances, and you no longer want to continue

Retiring: Leaving gracefully, whether it's aging out, moving, or due to other committments (school, work, etc), but you wish you could stay... (that last part is fuzzy sometimes!)

I retired from 104 Brilliant.

[Bando Commando]

I don't think that some of these terms are being used very fairly.

If you retire, you do it with "grace" and "honour"

So what...I quit Ojibwa and all of a sudden, I'm dishonourable?

I think it depends on the terms. If you are say, a CPO2 and say...quit because you don't like someone...thats one thing.

In my case, I was continuously being *******, to the point where it even included a promotion. So, I'm at our Navy League corps...a place that respects me and my abilities.

Am I dishonourable? I have helped a unit of 9 to now a unit of 40. Does quitting Sea Cadets make me a bad person?

I really disapprove of some of the language. I did not retire, but I'm sorry...I still have all of my honour intact, if not more.

[Dick]

Does quitting Sea Cadets make me a bad person?
YEEESSSS

Unless you go air. :D

[TLOD]

I don't personally see a difference. There are really only two "exits" from the cadet programme.
1. Request voluntary termination of your membership, or
2. Compulsory termination of your membership (due to age, lack of attendance, or actions requiring compulsory termination).

[Aprile]

I could have stayed in my corps until April of this year, however I left at the end of September. I was doing my final semester of high school and also didn't believe my corps needed my services anymore. I don't believe I'm a big bad quitter, but at the same time, I don't think I retired either. I frankly left. Personally I think it was a better decision for me. I eventually joined up with the Navy League (earlier than if I stayed with my corps) and I am having such a good time with my ship. When people ask, I say I left my corps early. And that's what it is to me, I left because I believed it was my time. Everyone does have very good points in this thread and if I am what you consider 'a quiter' than that's fine with me.

[The Blue Tory]

I could have stayed in my corps until April of this year, however I left at the end of September. I was doing my final semester of high school and also didn't believe my corps needed my services anymore. I don't believe I'm a big bad quitter, but at the same time, I don't think I retired either. I frankly left. Personally I think it was a better decision for me. I eventually joined up with the Navy League (earlier than if I stayed with my corps) and I am having such a good time with my ship. When people ask, I say I left my corps early. And that's what it is to me, I left because I believed it was my time. Everyone does have very good points in this thread and if I am what you consider 'a quiter' than that's fine with me.

In my books, you retired... it was your time... you advanced as much as you could, did as much as possible for your unit

[CanuckPilot]

I don't personally see a difference. There are really only two "exits" from the cadet programme.
1. Request voluntary termination of your membership, or
2. Compulsory termination of your membership (due to age, lack of attendance, or actions requiring compulsory termination).
I agree with this. I would like to add, however, that an Air Cadet who completes Level 5 training can officially retire from cadets. They get the certificate and everything. I'm not sure how other elements do things.

[brennan]

I don't personally see a difference. There are really only two "exits" from the cadet programme.
1. Request voluntary termination of your membership, or
2. Compulsory termination of your membership (due to age, lack of attendance, or actions requiring compulsory termination).

i would have to argue this one...
under #2 i would have moved age to voluntary termination, as you've stayed parading to the last possible moment, and whilst it's the system giving you the boot, not yoruself, i retired from age, and would hate to be assosiated with the people kicked out because they couldn't be stuffed rocking up often enough, or who screwed around too often...

[The Blue Tory]

I agree with this. I would like to add, however, that an Air Cadet who completes Level 5 training can officially retire from cadets. They get the certificate and everything. I'm not sure how other elements do things.

If thats the case, the same situation should apply to NSCE as well

[Gungod]

In my case, I was continuously being *******, to the point where it even included a promotion. So, I'm at our Navy League corps...a place that respects me and my abilities.

Who determined the 'shafting'?? Could it be that you didn't get what you wanted so you quit?? Was it that your previous Unit didn't respect you and they felt you didn't have any abilities?

I share TLOD's definition..

[Chief Hoult]

It's all very objective on what someone ELSE did....Essentially, one could define quitting as leaving before the day you turn 19 (at which poin you MUST leave, ergo retiring, like mandatory retirement). So it unfair to say that someone elses reason for leaving makes them a 'quitter'.

Personally, the Coxswain and the CO of my old corps knew I was considering leaving, because I told them and gave fair warning. The reason I left was because I didn't feel I was contributing as much as I could be, and I'm a believer that if you don't feel you are contributing, don't just sit there and cruise...some people were surprised, because I could've just cruised for the year as a CPO1. I was still contributing the BH, but they have a lot of senior cadets, so there wasn't a need for an extra Chief hanging around.

I think what CI Campbell is trying to say is that he wasn't contributing for whatever reason (be it his officers beliefs that he didn't have the ability to, being blocked when he attempted to help, etc....I'll never know, you'll never know, unless there are secret videos we can watch ;)), so he went to a unit where he could contribute and needed his skills. Now he is benefiting future (heopfully) members of the CCM, and I imagine we'll be able to see this contribution in the future.

I've had a lot of work to do since I've transferred, and I feel I'm contributing quite a bit. Does it make me a 'quitter' to the Sea Side? I don't think so. I'm using my abilities to help a unit that needs the help more than the Top Unit in BC needs help ;) I feel that I 'retired' (I actually prefer to term 'finished my time' or 'left') from the Sea Side of the movement, as I contributed back to what I got from the program, I got as far as I could go, I met goals for myself, and my past corps.

As for actual definitions applicable to 'our' situation...



To depart from; leave: “You and I are on the point of quitting the theater of our exploits” (Horatio Nelson).
To leave the company of: had to quit the gathering in order to be home by midnight.
To give up; relinquish: quit a job.
To abandon or put aside; forsake: advised them to quit their dissipated ways.
To cease or discontinue: asked them to quit talking; quit smoking.

vs. retiring...



To cause to withdraw from one's usual field of activity: retired all executives at 55.
To withdraw from use or active service: retiring an old battleship.


And who are any of us to tell a cadet they 'can't' say they retired?

Quite frankly, in my mind, 'retired' is an odd term to use for cadets....it's a youth organization. I still use retired (as in CPO1(Ret'd)) But as a whole....I think the terms, 'left', 'finished with', etc are a little more applicable to cadets. There are tonnes of other terms that could be used.

If someone contributed to the movement, showed up for tag days, poppy sales, marched in parades, became better people, joined a team, etc, than I'd say they 'retired', even if they leave as an LC. They contributed what they could, and for whatever reason, chose to leave the program.

[Gungod]

Sometimes there are ulterior motives for people to leave a Corps. Sometimes the person thinks they are better than they really are and feel the 'system owes them something'. Visions of grandeur.

[Chief Hoult]

Sometimes there are ulterior motives for people to leave a Corps. Sometimes the person thinks they are better than they really are and feel the 'system owes them something'. Visions of grandeur.

By the same token, I'm sure there are those who aren't that great, and get rewards anyway. It's incredibly objective....who are we to say that maybe they aren't that good, and have never been given the opportunity? Unless we are members of that corps, and see that person perform at a task where they excel, who are we to judge?

Regardless of the persons motive, if they've contributed anything, even if it's as simple as showing up for poppy sales, then they've made themselves a better citizen, and contributed to their community.

[LukeMorin]

I retired,

it was that, or get kicked, or quit the army..

retiring can also be a decision between you and your officer.

[Rider]

In June, i'd like to think that I will be 'retiring'. I will still be 17 when I leave my corps, but I'm going away for University so I cant really help but leave, there is no way I'm just going to stick around until im 19 then say i've retired.....But say I dont go anywhere next year and I dont return to cadets, then I'd think of that as quitting.

[GliderGimp]

Well, I'm leaving at the end of this year, because 1) I'm the WO1 and sqn. comm., there's no more for me to achieve and I want the sqn to progress and change. 2) I'm both working and going to school next year and 3) I'd age out in January of 2005 anyway so there's no real point in staying for half a year.

I'm considering it retiring. Conversely, my friend is leaving for similar reasons but also because she's having problems dealing with the sqn and she's refused a proper retirement on annual, even though she could definitely call it retirement for university's sake.

Just goes to show, sometimes its in the eye of the beholder.

[woharrity]

Retireing can also mean moving on from Cadets to the reserves or Reg force.

[Caz]

Funny, I don't have a retirement certifcate on my wall.

Mine says I graduated from the Air Cadet program, after completing the syllabus.

-R.

[The Blue Tory]

I never got a certificate....

Only thing close to it, is my NSCE certificate... which is similar to yours

[Bando Commando]

Who determined the 'shafting'?? Could it be that you didn't get what you wanted so you quit??

Didn't get what I wanted...

You know what I wanted? To be treated like everyone else. To have a shot at being something. To make a difference. Everytime I tried, I was told, and I quote, You're nothing but a bandsman. Odd, who can also instruct, sail, shoot, swim, drill like nobody's business, keep a good uniform, think of ideas naturally etc.

No, it had nothing to do with not getting what I wanted. I was told a week after that I was to be promoted to CPO2 and become Coxswain the following year. But what was the point?

You know what I wanted, dear Gungod? To be of use. And I found that...at NLCC Temeraire. Since I got there, we entered a drill team for the first time in 6 years (since I was a member of the corps) and took a provincial award for recruitment. I'm happy where I am now. I love my kids. They work their hearts out, and do a great job. I've never been more proud.

So yes...I may have quit...sometimes I regret it...its every keener's greatest dream to be Coxswain...but I see the smiles and determination on those Navy Leaguers' faces, and my regrets fade away.

I didn't run from my problem...I ran to my solution. :)

[Bando Commando]

Sorry to double post...
I actually DID get a certificate. Does this mean anything? :p

[CI Dumaran]

Sorry to double post...
I actually DID get a certificate. Does this mean anything? :p
WOW... for all my work and dedication.. I got zip..

Well, I got a mention in the newsletter. does that count?

[ctjj.stevenson]

I've been reading your discussion about the definitions of retiring v. quitting. I would guess that someone that retires is someone that had a force to make them leave the cadet movement (i.e., age, school, etc). As for quitting, it would be someone that just didn't like the movement and left.

As for certificats of retirement, there does exists a Cadet Service certificat. "At my unit" (I feel that I say that too much), we only give it to someone that has become a senior cadet before leaving.

That's all for me! Good night!

[CI Dumaran]

Well, at least they didn't forget about me.

I know cadets that retired that were completely forgotten.

"where's WO2 ________?"
"Sir, he ... umm... retired last month."
"oh... ok."

[Primer]

We have that problem too at my Unit. Cadets saying there going to leave to Join the local Milita. We have a retirement certificat and a Mug for the cadets that age out just a little thankyou from the officers and staff :)

Cadets are one big family::::

[CI Dumaran]

We have that problem too at my Unit. Cadets saying there going to leave to Join the local Milita. We have a retirement certificat and a Mug for the cadets that age out just a little thankyou from the officers and staff :)

Cadets are one big family::::

Nice. I wish I received a mug. I bought mine.

It's the same at a lot of units.

PRes is attractive for some, if not most.

[MThornback]

The Mug was a tradition at my old Corps too....unfortunatly....its been ignored the last 4 outgoing RSMs, as well as a handful of other SNCOs...

[ctjj.stevenson]

We have that problem too at my Unit. Cadets saying there going to leave to Join the local Milita. We have a retirement certificat and a Mug for the cadets that age out just a little thankyou from the officers and staff :)

Cadets are one big family::::

That's nice!

[The Blue Tory]

All I recieved was a little acknowledgement on my last day as a cadet that I was retired...

Nothing special, well thats what happens when you have like 10 cadets retiring a year...

Anyway that parade, all the memories got to me, and I held my salute up for a couple seconds too long on the march off... which was probably an attempt to extend my career just a little bit longer, but then finally accepting its completeness as the hand went down...

[Nick]

My "retirement" was absolutely boring. I got no recognition to speak of, not even anything noting that one of the Chiefs was retiring (me). I was kinda annoyed.

[ctjj.stevenson]

Well, for me, seeing that I was the coxswain of my unit, I had a parade in my honour.

The tradition at the time was that the former coxs'n takes the parade while the new one will be on the side of the dais (opposite to the officers). The former coxs'n would do all the usual aspects of the parade, and heads the first march pass for the CO. Then, seeing that we have a brass gunner chain and call, which is passed from chief to chief, the former coxs'n would take his place, next to the dais, and call the new conx'n. The former would place the chain on the new coxs'n.

Then, the new coxs'n would take the parade, while the former is next to the dais. It's up to the CO to invite the former coxs'n on the dais to take the parade, (and usually, they do). Therefore, I had a parade to my honour.

Also, last year, my commanding officer (Ltv Forget) began to write special letters to former cadets that have retired. She would frame them, and would present it to them during a special dinner.

That's all for me now... have a great day!