Protesting Drug Prohibition

[wb256]

Well, it's that time of year again. In major cities all across Canada people are heading to their government buildings to light up on their front lawn in protest.

Does anyone have any opinions about this? How do you think the police should respond?

[Dick]

How do you think the police should respond?
By smoking up with them!

[lord_rupert]

Personally I am against the use of all drugs even cannabis until we can be certain of their role as gateway drugs. I have never even smoked a single joint, although I did smoke regular cigarettes until the other month.
On the issue of policing such a protest - tricky as you can't be too heavt handed but on the other hand they are blatantly all breaking a law...

ROO

[wb256]

I know during the Iraq war protests they ignored drugs completely, to avoid starting trouble with protesters (at least they did in Winnipeg). I thought that was pretty respectable, they were there to keep things under control, rather than being there to make arrests.

I'd just like to ask that this dosn't turn into a debate about legalization, but rather a debate about whether or not the police should make arrests at these protests. Should they enforce the drugs laws? Or should they back off to avoid a riot?

[RyanForbes]

hmm touchy subject

i would say defently enforce the laws, but also be mindful of how many people there are, and unless they want to be arresting 100s or 1000s or people, then they should hang around to keep the peace, and make sure no fights or anything of that sort break out, rather than drug use

[lord_rupert]

Maybe keep an eye out for people looking to deal larger quantities rather than those who are just smoking a spliff or three..

ROO :D

[piper]

I figure, if they are just there smoking dope and having a good time thumbing their noses at the law, just let them do it. I dosen't hurt anyone except themselves, why risk a riot or whatever else may happen.

[Lance]

Theyd probably be too cooked or burnt to start a riot... I can picture it now
"man... the cops" "shoooooooot" "lets get em" "yea man... wait... naaaaaaaah... roll up a blunt"

Personally, I dont care, I dont smoke dope, so it doesnt bother me. But I think they should be allowed to, I dont believe its a gateway drug because i believe that your choices dictate what you do and dont do drug wise.

[CONtroversial_subject]

gateway drug theory is retarded. They try pot first because its more easily accessible without knowing anything about the dope game. Things like Crack Cocaine, Heroin, or Meth the users of these drugs, some of which never even tried weed, got self esteem problems or are just stupid. There is no myth that any of these aren't addictive or wont kill you.. everybody knows exactly what they do.

Anyways the police should and atleast here prolly will keep driving lookin for something that'll get em a pay raise.

[Insane Power Pilot]

Well, it's that time of year again. In major cities all across Canada people are heading to their government buildings to light up on their front lawn in protest.

I had no idea that such a protest even existed, thus I don't have an opinion.

Do you have any information about it?

[UnluckyLove]

I figure, if they are just there smoking dope and having a good time thumbing their noses at the law, just let them do it. I dosen't hurt anyone except themselves, why risk a riot or whatever else may happen.

doesn't hurt anyone but themselves? So if a guy that's been smoking dope goes and drives a car, he won't hurt anyone? of course they hurt other people! drugs impair senses, which means even if they're not driving, they could pick a fight because they're not thinking straight! i know people who've done that, one of them sits behind me and one over in my french class. he came to class with a busted lip, a bruised cheek, and 2 black eyes. So it hurt him, and it hurt the other guy who now has a broken leg even more.

EC

[piper]

April 20th, also know as 4/20. This is when all the dope smokers get together and smoke a whole lot of doobies to protest its illegality. Here is Ottawa we usually have a couple hundred people going to Parliament hill to smoke some joints. Its International Weed Smoking day or something like that.

[wb256]

doesn't hurt anyone but themselves? So if a guy that's been smoking dope goes and drives a car, he won't hurt anyone? of course they hurt other people! drugs impair senses, which means even if they're not driving, they could pick a fight because they're not thinking straight! i know people who've done that, one of them sits behind me and one over in my french class. he came to class with a busted lip, a bruised cheek, and 2 black eyes. So it hurt him, and it hurt the other guy who now has a broken leg even more.

EC


Yes, I'm quite certain the rate of people going into marijuana indicued rampages is quite high. Probably WAY higher than the rate of people who drink and get into fights. {!}

Anyways, this isn't about whether weed should be legal or illegal, it's about how the police should respond.

Also, there were more than hundreads in Ottawa today apparently.

[Lance]

April 20th, also know as 4/20. This is when all the dope smokers get together and smoke a whole lot of doobies to protest its illegality. Here is Ottawa we usually have a couple hundred people going to Parliament hill to smoke some joints. Its International Weed Smoking day or something like that.

and international skip day, and bob marley's brithday (that accounts for 90% of the hype)

[wb256]

and international skip day, and bob marley's brithday (that accounts for 90% of the hype)

Bob Marley was born on Feb 6...the association between that and 420 day is a myth. The time 420 was chosen as an international time to smoke pot daily...April 20 was chosen as a day because the date is 4/20. (this is what I've been told...I'm in no way an authority on the matter).

It is someone else's Birthday however...but I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with the event...as I don't think Hitler smoked very much marijuana.

[K Piper]

It is someone else's Birthday however...but I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with the event...as I don't think Hitler smoked very much marijuana.

Or maybe he did? That might explain a few things... that or he had a drinking problem.

Marijuana pretty well has the effects of drinking way too much. When you black out from drinking, the brain cells are flying away.

[piper]

I will be speaking from (very former and embarrassing) experience here, marijuiana does not impair your senses as much as you may think. It's not as bad as the effect alcohol on your brain, unless you smoke a pound or so. Its still a bad thing, but the effects of it are blown way out of proportion. Anyways, on topic again, even if the police wanted to deal with all the people smoking up on 4/20, how on earth would they go about arresting all these people and booking them? I mean, it seems like half the population of Ottawa smokes dope, thats alot of people to arrest :rolleyes:

[wb256]

Yes, I hear there is a very high rate of marijuana causing people to go on genocidal rages. I read once that Pol Pot and Milosovic toked together the odd time.

Alright, but seriously, marijuana dosn't even kill braincells. It's not a poison like alcohol, it's a psychoactive chemical that alters the thought process.

The effects of marijuana are not even comparable to drinking heavily. Compare the competance of someone who smoked a joint and someone who drank more than 6 beer. Unless the guy/girl who drank the beer was a really heavy drinker, chances are she/he will be far worse off than the smoker.

Just my experience from watching people at parties.

[Insane Power Pilot]

The effects of marijuana are not even comparable to drinking heavily. Compare the competance of someone who smoked a joint and someone who drank more than 6 beer. Unless the guy/girl who drank the beer was a really heavy drinker, chances are she/he will be far worse off than the smoker.

That's not a fair statement. Marijuana makes some people sick, paranoid, and/or pass out. Some people get sick after one or two drinks as well. Everyone has a different range of tolerance, and I don't think that changes drastically depending on if you use marijuana or alcohol more frequently.

Also, let's keep from telling stories that start out like "So me and my buddy were sitting around smoking a blunt when..." or "I was taking vodka shots by myself and I was thinking..." I don't think that sits too well with the mods... ;)

[Pilot]

if there was (for a drastic example) several large gangs who decided to hang out and kill people , I think arrests would be made... it's not legal either... food for thought..

[wb256]

if there was (for a drastic example) several large gangs who decided to hang out and kill people , I think arrests would be made... it's not legal either... food for thought..

Just because they're both illegal dosn't make them the same thing. Why try to break up petty, harmless, consentual crime at the risk of causing a riot? Once arrests are being made, if someone should try to struggle, and other protesters watch - chances are violence will break out.

[wb256]

That's not a fair statement. Marijuana makes some people sick, paranoid, and/or pass out. Some people get sick after one or two drinks as well. Everyone has a different range of tolerance, and I don't think that changes drastically depending on if you use marijuana or alcohol more frequently.

Also, let's keep from telling stories that start out like "So me and my buddy were sitting around smoking a blunt when..." or "I was taking vodka shots by myself and I was thinking..." I don't think that sits too well with the mods... ;)


I don't think I've mentioned any stories like that. In fact, I don't think I've mentioned whether or not I consumer either alcohol or marijuana (although I'm sure you've all made your assumptions, despite the fact that it's completely irrelevant to this discussion). Nothing that I've said should offend anyone - I've merely related stories about watching other people. It's no different from reading information from a textbook, only more accurate.

Tolerance definatly builds with marijuana. If not tolerance, than the ability to cope with it's effects. I've noticed a huge difference between the ways in which a new or occasional marijuana user reacts to being stoned and the ways in which heavy (daily) users of marijuana react. Regular users seem relaxed and a little bit goofy, whereas light and occasional users seem scared and paranoid.

IN GENERAL, the effects of marijuana are far less (for the lack of a better word) "severe" than alcohol's. People tend to be more passive, not get into fights. They also seem to have more self control in general, and act less out of character. For example, alcohol seems to routinely cause 2 people who hardly know each other to sleep together. Marijuana generally causes 2 people to make a sandwhich and listen to pink floyd.

[Agnew]

First off, 4:20 started out as a time when people in San Rafael, California would meet, after school, and smoke pot at the statue of Louis Pasteur. Interesting.

Secondly, marijuana contains THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol). I don't know about you, but if there was a vat of this stuff in my house, I wouldn't be touching it. Marijuana also contains over 400 chemicals.

Within a few minutes of inhaling marijuana smoke, the user will likely feel, along with intoxication, a dry mouth, rapid heartbeat, some loss of coordination and poor sense of balance, and slower reaction time. Blood vessels in the eye expand, so the user's eyes look red. In rare cases, a user who has taken a very high dose of the drug can have severe psychotic symptoms and need emergency medical treatment.

Marijuana hinders the user's short-term memory (memory for recent events), and he or she may have trouble handling complex tasks. With the use of more potent varieties of marijuana, even simple tasks can be difficult.

Because of the drug's effects on perceptions and reaction time, users could be involved in auto crashes. Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. (Sounds so safe, huh? Nice night of smoking pot turns into a lifetime[or soon to be not] of aids. Poor you)

THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is processed by the hippocampus, a brain component that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of senses with emotions. Learned behaviors also deteriorate.

Long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs.

Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers.

Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers.


Short-term effects:

-Problems with memory and learning
-Distorted perception
-Difficulty in thinking and problem solving
-Loss of coordination
-Increased heart rate
-Anxiety
-Panic attacks
-Daily cough and phlegm
-Symptoms of chronic bronchitis
-More frequent chest colds

Long-term effects:


-Abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke
-Impairment of critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning
-Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure.


If the cops just sit back and watch as this happens, it will give the public a false sense of that being acceptable. And if someone decides to bring a lil' booze or some other drugs, and the police try to aprehend that person, couldn't that cause a riot?

If you were a police officer, and you were there, seeing many people smoking this lethal, deadly and fatal drug, why wouldn't you stop them. Most likely there will be a pregnant women there, killing/harming her unborn child. You have to drive on the road with these people, and the effects on driving may not wear off for 24 hours.

Another scenario. Your mom goes to the store to pick up some groceries. On the short ride home her vehicle is struck by someone who's high on marijuana. That person is just coming back from this 'protest'. Are you saying that you would still say the cops shouldn't have interfered? I doubt it, you'd be angry as hell. You'd blame the police, like everyone does.

Everyday people die in car collisions. Some are from fatigue, some caused by irresponsible drivers, some are caused by drinking. But some are also caused by other drugs. The aren't safe! It's like you want people to die, it's horrible.

[Tomtom]

Cut and paste 101

[Pilot]

Just because they're both illegal dosn't make them the same thing. Why try to break up petty, harmless, consentual crime at the risk of causing a riot? Once arrests are being made, if someone should try to struggle, and other protesters watch - chances are violence will break out.
The point is the line has to be drawn somwhere... that's all.. yes I can see it might get violent, however, that doesn't condone their actions..

[wb256]

Cut and paste 101


Yeah, that's about all I have to say to that as well. Also, THC's arn't a poison...why wouldn't you go near them? Risky sexual behavior from pot? Not likely...alcohol maybe, but marijuana seems to be very non-sexual.

I know NO ONE who's gotten so high they slept with someone. Alcohol on the other hand...

Anyways, I don't have time to explain why all of the "facts" you have posted are nothing more than products of biased research and twisted statistics and numbers. I will later, but I have to run


Warren

[Logan]

Only thing that agnew left out is that the THC also builds up on the nerve endings in the brain and won't go away so after a while the THC will actually permentantly impair brain function. just FYI

[piper]

The view you hold of marijuiana is all dependant of whether you think drugs are bad, or not. We can argue this until the end of time and still it won't get anywhere..."bad", 'no good", "no bad", "no good".

[CONtroversial_subject]

Marijuana is Plant first off, not a drug. Most pot smokers still consider Cocaine (and any variations of it), Heroin etc. to be very bad, because these drugs actually DO have harmful side effects.

Secondly on statistics, you were doing good till you started talking about people getting in auto accidents because of weed. Generally your tendancy to over concentrate on singular tasks makes many weed smokers better drivers when they are high. Im not saying that smoking weed and driving is a good thing but it is NO WHERE NEAR a leading cause of car crashes, and that is a fact. Now if it simply said that due to drugs, then they aren't refering to marijuana. Why? because EVEN THE GOVERNMENT says that weed isn't a drug. It is not man made in any way, this 200 chemical crap is also garbage. Weed requires alot of healthy plant food inorder for the plant to survive the 3 months it takes to crop. Any harmful chemicals would kill the plant. Remember the people who wrote that junk, are trying to find excuses, you can look at any issue and find reasons to dis-allow it, hell we found plenty to dis-allow freedom of speech for a long time.

On the un-safe sex thing. Chances are if you got high, you aren't getting laid anytime soon. Sex is a real work out, something that you are way to lazy to do when high on weed. Alchohal on the other hand would be the cause for alot of unsafe sex.

As for paranoia being an issue. Like Warrenbrauner said, its something that happens to SOME people when they first start smoking weed, and most people can tell its just the weed.


As for the effects, I added points beside all that had in-accurate info.


Short-term effects:

-Problems with memory and learning (ONLY WHILE HIGH)
-Distorted perception (ONLY WHILE HIGH)
-Difficulty in thinking and problem solving (ONLY WHILE HIGH)
-Loss of coordination (Only with new smokers)
-Increased heart rate (False)
-Anxiety (False)
-Panic attacks (False, the idea is to calm you)
-Daily cough and phlegm (Even pot heads who smoke upward of an ounce a day dont have this)
-Symptoms of chronic bronchitis (False)
-More frequent chest colds (People who smoke weed are less likely to catch common colds actually)

Long-term effects:

-Abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke (more likely to be caused by Cigarettes than weed)
-Impairment of critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning (All weed effects are temporary, the only way this would happen is if you were constantly high, as would happen if you constantly drank alchohal.
-Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure. - WELL DUH!! Cocaine is an upper drug, that is highly addictive and is responsible for alot of deaths and ruined lives, if you are going to shoot coke there is no point in smoking weed, all it would do is slightly weaken the effect of the coke.

[Agnew]

Okay, new viewpoint!

Myths and Stuff..

Marijuana Overdose. There has never been a reported case of anybody dying from a marijuana overdose. Tests have shown that the ammount of cannaboids to the amount needed for intoxication required to OD is 40,000:1! The ratio to overdose on alcohol is 4:1 - 10:1. Alcohol overdoses claim approx 5,000 lives per year. Marijuana has taken none.

Brain Damage. Marijuana (as stated before) is psychoactive because it stimulates brain receptors. But unlike alcohol and some other drugs, marijuana doesn't produce the toxins to kill them and doesn't wear them out. Studies done on people have shown no effect on the brain, even with people who smoke 18 joints a day. ( ! ) Marijuana is also known to increase alpha wave activity in your brain. This is associated with meditation and relaxing. Often aids creativity. ( That's why all the pot heads are better artists than me.. )

Memore. Yes, it does impair your short term memory while your high. But thats all. Unless you are a person smoing 18 doobies a day! This people may suffer from an extended period of short term memory loss, for up to 3 months. ( No wonder they smoke so much, can't remember if they just finished one, or lit one up )

Heart Problems. If marijuana did become completely legal for medicinal use, and they did a commercial, near the end it would say "People who suffer from heart problems or high blood pressure should not take this drug"!

Hormones. Marijuana isn't known to increase or decrease testosterone levels. Alcohol does. It lowers it. ( I thought Homer kinda had a feminine voice.. ). Also, marijuana has never been proven to cause reproductive damage.

Immune System. Large(WAYYYYYY ABOVE AVERAGE) levels of THC may cause your immune system to shut down during intoxication. More so bacterial not viral, infections. But no studies have shown that THC has a negative impact on your immune system!

Cancer. Smoking marijuana has the potential to cause both bronchitis and cancer of the lungs, throat, and neck, but this is generally no different than inhaling any other burnt carbon-containing matter since they all increase the number of lesions (and therefore possible infections) in your airways. ( yumm.. )

Gateway. Marijuana has not been shown to be a drug that introduces you into other drugs. When the Dutch partially legallized marijuana in the 70's, heroin and cocaine usage substantially declined. ( And marijuana became cheaper! )

Benefits!

- Because smoked marijuana contains a variety of combustion compounds, it can damage the lungs and possibly the immune system. Several health committees recommended the development of an inhalation device that delivers pure THC -- the active ingredient in marijuana -- to the lungs. Such a device has not yet been created.

- There is some evidence -- but no scientifically valid studies -- that marijuana is useful in treating some forms of epilepsy and spasticity caused by multiple sclerosis.

- Some studies show that smoked marijuana is effective for some patients in relieving nausea caused by cancer and chemotherapy.

- There is evidence that marijuana may improve the appetite and help patients gain weight. This could be lifesaving for AIDS patients who develop wasting, a severe weight-loss condition.

- Smoking marijuana is effective in lowering pressure inside the eyeballs of some patients with glaucoma. A word of caution, however: the drug also drops blood pressure, and this could compromise blood flow to the optic nerve and damage vision.

______________________________

Copy and pasting isn't that bad! As long as it proves(or attempts to) something. And it was from yahoo..I don't think they'll miss it.

That 200 chemical crap(actually, it's 400+) is true. Even nature contain's chemicals. Can't just go out and smoke a tree and not cough out a lung. And trees are natural.

THC is dangerous. Show of hands, how many people would drink a few cups of THC? Hmm... not me. Not only would my immune system suffer, but I think when something has got a long enough name to be abbreviated into three letters...it might just taste a little badd.

Risky sexual behaviour. Do you watch the commercials? I'm sure when you and your friends are getting high, or w/e, that if anyone was trying to feel someone else up, you'd put an end to it. But when you're at some big party, and Britney Spears look alike has a bit to much to smoke, she can be easily taken advantage of. And if the other person is high or drunk, you can't say it rape or date rape. If I was a chick, I wouldn't smoke a mary jane around guys.

And everything can be contradicted. 1 + 1 is 2, right? Maybe. But there are some nerds out there who can really get you thinking about how nothing can be perfect. Even though I think there are only four perfect things on Earth. Math, Mary-Kate Olsen (http://www.fan-builder.com/nym/bbg5000/), Backstreet Boys!, and... CW..lol.

Sources: AskMen.com and Kevins creativity LOL!!!

[Tomtom]

This thread is about how the police should respond.




Thread open for discussion.

See International Issues Instructions for comments

[CONtroversial_subject]

well 4/20 is over but the police should go get a donut and stop making unnecessary drama.

[piper]

Which would be exactly what the cops did. Couple thousand or so people blazed a few doobies on Parliament Hill, and the police basically grabbed a dozen donuts and some coffee and sat back and made sure no one did anything stupid. There were actually more police on hand during the 50 Cent/G Unit concert two days later then there were for the smoking on Parliament Hill on 4/20. No big deal was made of it.

On the subject of marijuiana, it dosent really screw you up that badly. You just get happier, and enjoy yourself more then usual, expecially in class. However, future reprecussions (i.e. blood test if you want to be in the CF or police) CAN be unpleasent. Again, the arguments you use depend on whether or not you are for the drug or against it. There really can't be a middle ground on this discussion.

[The Chief]

Here we go.


First off, 4:20 started out as a time when people in San Rafael, California would meet, after school, and smoke pot at the statue of Louis Pasteur. Interesting.
But nobody knows that for sure.


Secondly, marijuana contains THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol). I don't know about you, but if there was a vat of this stuff in my house, I wouldn't be touching it. Marijuana also contains over 400 chemicals.
So does everything else. Wood contains hundreds of chemicals. Your body contains THOUSANDS.


Within a few minutes of inhaling marijuana smoke, the user will likely feel, along with intoxication, a dry mouth, rapid heartbeat, some loss of coordination and poor sense of balance, and slower reaction time. Blood vessels in the eye expand, so the user's eyes look red. In rare cases, a user who has taken a very high dose of the drug can have severe psychotic symptoms and need emergency medical treatment.
I have never heard of anybody who had to go get medical treatment for an OD of weed. Or anyone who got "severe psychotic symptoms". I think whoever wrote this is mistaking it for acid.


Marijuana hinders the user's short-term memory (memory for recent events), and he or she may have trouble handling complex tasks. With the use of more potent varieties of marijuana, even simple tasks can be difficult.
Short-term memory being what is learned while stoned. You can remember a heck of a lot when you're high, and although really complex tasks (like single-handedly operating a nuclear power plant) I'm sure would be more difficult, there is nothing you really can't do while stoned that you can do while normal.


Because of the drug's effects on perceptions and reaction time, users could be involved in auto crashes.
People can crash cars while they're stoned? Wow. They certainly can't crash while they are normal. :rolleyes:


Drug users also may become involved in risky sexual behavior. There is a strong link between drug use and unsafe sex and the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. (Sounds so safe, huh? Nice night of smoking pot turns into a lifetime[or soon to be not] of aids. Poor you)
Nice rhetoric. This is untrue, of course. I know that when people get stoned they have more of a tendency to take a seat and listen to music or tell jokes then go and have sex (an activity that usually requires a lot of energy). Weed mellows you out, it doesn't make you horny.


THC changes the way in which sensory information gets into and is processed by the hippocampus, a brain component that is crucial for learning, memory, and the integration of senses with emotions. Learned behaviors also deteriorate.
Yeah, if you smoke upwards of an ounce a day.


Long-term use of marijuana produces changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs.
No it doesn't. I'd be interested to know where the author got this information. Heroin and cocaine do INFINITELY more damage to the brain than weed does. The only way this would be possible would be if you smoke upwards of probably an ounce or 2 a day.


Someone who smokes marijuana regularly may have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers.
Well that's a given. If you inhale smoke from a wood fire regularly you'll get the same respiratory problems.


Regardless of the THC content, the amount of tar inhaled by marijuana smokers and the level of carbon monoxide absorbed are three to five times greater than among tobacco smokers.
Tar??!? Are you crazy? Where the **** would you get tar from in marijuana??? And carbon monoxide is a property of smoke. It's in wood fire smoke, car exhaust, every kind of smoke there is.



Short-term effects:

-Problems with memory and learning
-Distorted perception
-Difficulty in thinking and problem solving
-Loss of coordination
-Increased heart rate
-Anxiety
-Panic attacks
-Daily cough and phlegm
-Symptoms of chronic bronchitis
-More frequent chest colds

-Problems with memory and learning - As Kris said, only while high.
-Distorted perception - Only while high.
-Difficulty in thinking and problem solving - Only while high.
-Loss of coordination - Only while high.
-Increased heart rate - only VERY slightly, and only while high.
-Anxiety - only if you're in a situation where you're worried about being caught. Not a cause of the weed.
-Panic attacks - Nobody I've ever seen has panicked while high.
-Daily cough and phlegm - FALSE. This would more likely be a very long-term effect.
-More frequent chest colds - There is no scientific evidence for this whatsoever.



Long-term effects:


-Abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke
-Impairment of critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning
-Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure.
-Abnormal functioning of lung tissue injured or destroyed by marijuana smoke - this goes for any type of smoke there is. Cigarettes, pipes, wood fires, car fumes...
-Impairment of critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning - OK, I'll grant this one.
-Recent findings indicate that smoking marijuana while shooting up cocaine has the potential to cause severe increases in heart rate and blood pressure. - yeah, but that's from the cocaine, NOT from the weed. Besides, who the heck shoots cocaine while stonned off weed?!? You know you REALLY gotta problem when...


If the cops just sit back and watch as this happens, it will give the public a false sense of that being acceptable. And if someone decides to bring a lil' booze or some other drugs, and the police try to aprehend that person, couldn't that cause a riot?
Possibly. But most sensible people will realize that there's no point in trying to arrest someone sitting on the lawn having a joint, much less hundreds or even thousands who are simply there to enjoy themselves. Plus, in case you didn't know, people have a right to peaceful protest. So technically, unless they get violent, the police really has very little perogative to arrest anyone.


If you were a police officer, and you were there, seeing many people smoking this lethal, deadly and fatal drug, why wouldn't you stop them. Most likely there will be a pregnant women there, killing/harming her unborn child. You have to drive on the road with these people, and the effects on driving may not wear off for 24 hours.
Why wouldn't I stop them? Because they are just there to enjoy themselves and to protest against a law they feel is unfair. If they aren't dealing or being violent, what reason is there to arrest anyone?

If there is a pregnant woman there, it is unfortunate, but you have no reasonable grounds to arrest her. It is sad but it is her body and her choice. Besides if you arrested a pregnant woman based simply on the fact that she is pregnant, but don't arrest anyone else, then you undermine your authority and open up a whole new can of worms.

Oh, and effects on driving do NOT last 24 hours. Unless it's laced with something else.


Another scenario. Your mom goes to the store to pick up some groceries. On the short ride home her vehicle is struck by someone who's high on marijuana. That person is just coming back from this 'protest'. Are you saying that you would still say the cops shouldn't have interfered? I doubt it, you'd be angry as hell. You'd blame the police, like everyone does.
Sure I'd be angry, but not at the cops. I'd be angry at the smoker. Anybody who is stupid enough to get drunk or high and then drive deserves to be shot. There's no excuse for risking lives like that. Just take a cab.


Everyday people die in car collisions. Some are from fatigue, some caused by irresponsible drivers, some are caused by drinking. But some are also caused by other drugs. The aren't safe! It's like you want people to die, it's horrible.
That is the stupidest thing I've heard. Basically according to the author, you smoke weed = you want to kill people. Screw off with the rhetoric. At this point we are getting into propaganda. Trying to appeal to emotions and saying that if you are a marijuana smoker, you are a horrible person. This is categorically UNTRUE, and completely destroys any credibility this article has/had.

Oh, and I know you are going to make assumptions based on this so here's the deal. I smoked weed for a year (quit on New Year's cause I want a clean blood test - trying to get into the CF) occasionally - maybe once every couple of months or so. So I knwo generally what I am talking about.

Questions/flames? Fire away.

[Dick]

I think too many people comment without experience, and that these facts sites tend to exagerate to scare people.

To solve this problem I suggest all kids be forced to smoke one joint to complete grade 4. That way everyone will know exactly what it does :D

[CONtroversial_subject]

grade 4? what are you trying to turn the whole country into the projects? Nobody should be forced to do anything, especially in grade 4. The whole point of legalizing weed is another step to actual freedom, forcing somebody to do something is the exact opposite of what we're trying to accomplish.

Anyways on the article, MOST documentation on marijuana IS propoganda, or information based off of proganda documents. Like has anybody seen those commercials on t.v.? its all bull****. What needs to be done is get some peoples to pay for ads that tell the truth.

[wb256]

This is kind of unrelated, but I found it interesting (it's with regards to Kris' comment about making commercials that arn't full of lies and stirring emotion).

I'm not sure if anyone saw the anti-drug commercial that tried to make a connection between marijuana and terrorism (and therefore, 9-11). It ended with the quote "marijuana, a little more dangerous than we all thought".

Well, someone (I believe it was adbusters) paid for an ad that satirized that one, linking high oil consumption (and therefore SUV's) with terrorism. It ended with the quote "SUV's, a little more dangerous than we all thought" (or something to that effect I believe, I've only seen it once).

Anyways, I just thought that was funny. Those commercials are ridiculous - they do such an awful job at actually explaining any reasons against smoking it. They could make them so much better if they didn't riddle them with lies and half truths

[CONtroversial_subject]

Anyways, I just thought that was funny. Those commercials are ridiculous - they do such an awful job at actually explaining any reasons against smoking it. They could make them so much better if they didn't riddle them with lies and half truths

Well the reason they do this is because there are no hard facts linking marijuana to any serious side effects or any other reason why people shouldn't use it, but that doesn't stop them from making up reasons. They've decided they are against weed, and are so stubborn in their ways that they will make up lies, and spend billions of dollars trying to put an end to it, in a pointless struggle that costs US billions in tax payer dollars while nothing is ever even done about the issue IF you are against it.

Now the way I see it, the government has 3 options. They can keep doing what they are doing, which is pretty much burning our money on a battle they know they cant win, 2) they can leave the drugs illegal but not really do anything about it or 3) they can flip the script, legalize drugs and start taking their 14% sales tax which would provided them with money to educate the public on the TRUE!! effects of drugs. The Drug game would in effect become like the tobbacco industry. As it is right now, we gotta look at reality. The people who sell these drugs have to be very ruthless and paranoid since they gotta worry about going to jail, and turf wars and all that. With all this going on alotta people are getting clipped that aint even involved with all that, so the Government needs to wake up and realize, if they can't police it, then run it.

[wb256]

That's a good point. There's a billion and one reasons why people should do a line of coke or meth - I think the commercials should concentrait on that.

Another thing I think should happen is REAL education about Extacy. I realize that it's an awful drug for you and in no way falls into the same category as Marijuana, but at the same time I think there should be information available concerning how to take it safely. People are going to do it, we'd might as wellkeep them from dying while they do.

[Lance]

Ecstacy is a whole other can of worms. Dont even bring that drug into this conversation, itll make people link it to dope... which is impossible, aside from maybe the occasional dealer who sells both. My town basically turned into an E experiment. Kids from 15 up, trippin on it every weekend. That aint cool, I cant walk around town at all without someone with huge pupils comin upto me and starin at my cordoroy jeans wantin to touch them like "whoooooooaaaaaaaaaaa man... lemme touch those pants"

Dope is a whole different issue. And a way less dangerous drug. By the way, for the record, Im 1,000,000 times more comfortable being in a car with a stoned driver than a drunk driver, believe it or not, stoners can drive while high. Its not impossible, and some are actually good drivers... its not as scary as you think, and definately not as "deadly."

[Lance]

Another thing I think should happen is REAL education about Extacy. I realize that it's an awful drug for you and in no way falls into the same category as Marijuana, but at the same time I think there should be information available concerning how to take it safely. People are going to do it, we'd might as wellkeep them from dying while they do.

okay, i didnt read this whole post, I saw the word ecstacy and jumped the gun... youre right, it definately is a topic that todays youngsters need to be educated on. Its definately a hard drug that a lot of people are on lately, and claim to have a lot of fun on, just like Acid. Its pretty hard to take drugs like that safely though. Considering theyre not really safe at all (unlike marijuana).

[piper]

I am of the opinion that smoking, toking, sniffing, snorting, inhaling, injecting or popping anything is just plaim dumb. Why, because I've been there (but not into hard drugs, thank goodness) and realized that not only is this a waste of money, but a good way to screw up my life. Stop looking short term (especially for weed), look long term. Anyone who wants to join the CF, or be a cop, firefighter, paramedic, doctor anything like that, do you smoke up? Then you can't get that job because you are subjected to blood and urine tests. And its also an easy way to get a criminal record, which will follow you around for the rest of your life. I have friends who do it, and thats all good for them. But you cannot say drugs, weed or whatever is good for you or dosen't have an effect on you. It is and it does. Just think about it for a second and try to think of what you have to loose if you get caught, or OD or whatever on whatever drug you may do. Yeah, people will still do it and yadda yadda yadda, but it is not and never will be a good or right thing to do.

[CONtroversial_subject]

Yeah, people will still do it and yadda yadda yadda, but it is not and never will be a good or right thing to do.

Its not a good or right thing to do? why because you could get arrested or stop you from persuing certain occupations? that isn't even close to a reason why it isn't right, that just means that the government doesn't want you to and this is the punishment they give for it. Right and Wrong is based on values and beliefs, and is open to interpretation. For instance I know several people who have enormous ammounts of stress because of their work, and weed makes them able to cope with that stress so they can function.

[piper]

Right and Wrong is based on values and beliefs, and is open to interpretation.

Exactly, I said that before in a previous quote. And I know lots of people who cope with stress without resorting to drugs, thats really a p*** poor excuse (in my opinion). But, the idea of legalising weed brings up an interesting idea, taxation. If the gov't taxed marijuiana sales, I wonder how much extra revenue they may bring in...? Interesting idea.

[CONtroversial_subject]

weed is a natural herb, and if you talk to any doctor while they can't perscribe it, most will recommend it for those who have post dramatic stress disorder, which is really common with kids who grew up in disfunctional families or on the street, usually because they can't afford the medication required for this disorder. If all these people stopped smoking weed, the ammount of violent crimes would increase drastically. See people with post draumatic stress disorder, especially those with who live high stress lives, need to be able to relieve that stress level or risk a psychotic episode. So what's worse some people minding their own business smoking a joint or randomly offing somebody because they are having a really bad week?

[Insane Power Pilot]

It's post traumatic stress syndrome and I've never heard of anyone taking marijuana for it. And for another, the people who admit to having it would most likely want to get rid of the problem and aren't looking for a stopgap solution. It's like a doctor recommending that anyone with a deep emotional or psychological problem repress what they are feeling with heavy drinking and/or suicide. But I think this is all rather irrelevant since the people who do not admit to having post traumatic stress syndrome, deny having it, or aren't getting real help for it are more likely to be the ones having the psychotic episodes. But I'm no expert on the subject.

I was under the impression that "medicinal" marijuana was only to be used by people with terminal illnesses?

[CONtroversial_subject]

like I said, many will recommend it, however they can't prescribe it. Sorry if my spelling sucks, english was never my subject. Anyways, marijauna isn't the best solution for post traumatic stress syndrome but it does help, and it does allow these people to escape from that stress. You can be serious about wanting to correct a disorder and simply not be able to afford the medication, in which situation you make due with what helps. Few people with this disorder are in a position to afford the medication so its common practice that marijuana is recommened. Im not trying to get off topic with this issue, it was simply an example of why weed cant just be labeled as some morally wrong substance, it is something that has several clinical uses.

[wb256]

I was under the impression that "medicinal" marijuana was only to be used by people with terminal illnesses?


That's what it was legalized for, despite the fact that it has NUMEROUS other uses. I have a friend going through chemo-therapy right now...and nothing else makes him/her eat after her/his treatment except for marijuana. She's not terminally ill, so she can't get it legally. However, the doctors still reccommended it to her, and it's probably increasing her chance of survival dramatically (keeping her from being malnourished and all).

As for stress and depression, I have had a few doctors talk to me about this issue (I used to be far less happy-go-lucky). Alcohol is bad for depression. It's addictive and you numb yourself and run away from your problems. Marijuana apparently cheers you up, but it dosn't cause you to forget about everything. Just gives things a more optimistic twist for a little while. Many people use marijuana to get over really bad "down times", with few ill effects. Alcohol on the other hand turns you into a sloppy drunk who gets into fights, and is just as depressed the next day.

Also, many people don't WANT to take the "proper" drugs for depression or stress. SSRI's have side effects that are far worse than marijuana's. These drugs take away any ups or downs for many people, turning them into a robot. Nothing's wrong, but nothing's right...you just are. I've seen so many friends lose their personalities completely to anti-depressants (which are the same class of drugs used to treat stress disorders).

Other side effects of those drugs are less than helpful as well. Many SSRI's result in sexual side effects (impotency in males, lack of sex drive in females). I can see how this would be less than desirable, and in many ways more depressing than the original situation (feeling broken and useless is never good when you're already depressed).

So, some people will use marijuana to get through troubled times of stress and depression - and many end up better off than those that used SSRI's (this is just from observations of numerous friends I've had that have gone through these problems).

[Insane Power Pilot]

As for stress and depression, I have had a few doctors talk to me about this issue (I used to be far less happy-go-lucky). Alcohol is bad for depression. It's addictive and you numb yourself and run away from your problems. Marijuana apparently cheers you up, but it dosn't cause you to forget about everything. Just gives things a more optimistic twist for a little while. Many people use marijuana to get over really bad "down times", with few ill effects. Alcohol on the other hand turns you into a sloppy drunk who gets into fights, and is just as depressed the next day.

There seems to be a contradiction here. You seem to say that alcohol is a depressant, and we all know it dulls the senses and slows reaction time. How, then, would it cause somebody to get into a fight? I would argue that it doesn't cause people who normally don't fight to do so.

[piper]

I've never heard of a doctor who would proscribe marijuiana for anything. The good ones would never do that, and the crooked doctors would prescribe some sort of medication that they will get a comission from by the drug company. Maybye the medical people are more Liberal out in BC, but here that would never happen. Any hard stats to back that up?

And on the subject of alcohol, it IS technically described as a depressent (I think). That dosen't mean it makes you depressed.

And finally, under Canandian Law, a drug is described as any substance that alters the functioning of brain in any way (thats a much shortened version of what is actually in the CDSA, more to follow). Just because weed is a plant does not mean it is not a drug, it is, under law, a drug and that is that.

[Little Cadet]

Alcohol is a downer... if some people are much more outgoing and "crazy, it's not because alcohol "cheered them up" It's because they simply don't care what others think of them at the time and do all kind of things they would not normal do, including fights. Like piper said, it doesn't mean you're going to be awfully depressed. Sometimes it depends on what your mood was before consuming alcohol, if you had the most horrible day of your life, most likely you won't have much fun at all. But if it's big social event and everyone is having fun... it's another story.

I think you're right, Insane Power Pilot, I don't think that it's alcohol itself that causes someone to have a fight. I think it could be that people (that are already agressive in the first place) have less self-control and get aggressive when intoxicated because they don't judge their actions as much.

(Don't jump on me now, I'm just saying what I think, feel free to argue)

And by the way, whoever appears to think that doctors hand out marijuana precriptions left and right for various things, don't you think there is some exageration!?

[wb256]

Alcohol makes people do stupid stuff they normally wouldn't do, marijuana dosn't (that was my point). Lots of people get into fights because they were drunk (I know a lot of incidents where this has happened). Either way, alcohol (like valium) forces you to run from your problems.

Labeling doctors who prescribe marijuana as crooked is just ridiculous. The Canadian Government grows it to prescribe to people. It's useful for things other than what it's legal to use for. Some doctors know this (they do go to school, and know a lot more about drugs and their effects on peope than you do) and accordingly, reccommend marijuana as treatment even if it's not legal.

Doctors are there to help people maintain a healthy and comfortable lifestyle, not to enforce drug laws. If taking a drug is benificial to one's life, some will reccommend it (legal or not).

While on the subject, the majority of canadian doctors have supported the legalization of marijuana.

I suggest you watch the movie "Grass". It's about marijuana laws, and may open your eyes.

[wb256]

And by the way, whoever appears to think that doctors hand out marijuana precriptions left and right for various things, don't you think there is some exageration!?


It's not prescriptions. It's damned near impossible to get a prescription for the stuff.

Some mention that smoking marijuana is a route taken by some people to help with depression or stress. They don't openly say "go take this", but they list it as an option.

They generally cover alcohol while listing those options as well, but explain that alcohol is a downer and will only make things worse. They neglect to say this when mentioning marijuana. They have also said (when questioned about marijuana's safety) that if used in small amounts for emergencies it's not a big deal.

[Little Cadet]

Okay sorry, I thought you meant prescriptions..... it's all good!

[piper]

So what have we learned from this discussion? That some people are either marijuiana users and don't care if they are, or are supporters of marijuiana use. And also that some people (like me, for instance) are anti-drug and won't budge.

[CONtroversial_subject]

So what have we learned from this discussion? That some people are either marijuiana users and don't care if they are, or are supporters of marijuiana use. And also that some people (like me, for instance) are anti-drug and won't budge.

No, we've learned that some people weren't informed and now have a clearer view, some have stuck to their points on either side, but you are ignorant of the entire issue. You still refuse to even admit that marijuana is not a drug, even the government admits this much, it is classified as a controlled substance, since it doesn't fit into the category of the actual illegal drugs, its nothing more than a plant that as warrenbrauner said makes everything seem less serious for a short while.

Anyways you are wrong about Ontario too, it doesn't matter where you go in the world, if you have a problem that marijuana will help whether legal or not, any decent doctor will tell you this. Just because they can't make money off of you using it, doesn't affect anything. Any GOOD doctor is about his/her patients health, not just exploiting every possible way to make money. If this is how you see things, then your views and that of a drug dealer aren't very different.

On the alchohal issue, Little Cadet is right, Alchohal will bring out whatever feelings you are having. If you are happy when you get drunk, chances are you are going to be maybe a little too outgoing with the opposite sex, but just a real happy go lucky guy. Those who drink to get away from their problems will become extremely depressed, and throw all their money at the booze, this is how you get alchohalics. And if your ****** at something and you get drunk, my money says you gonna scrap the first person who looks at u funny, but it doesn't necessarily mean that person is usually violent. A violent person by nature wouldn't need the alchohal to give him those balls, he'd still hit the guy if he was sober, its the gutless kid who got drunk and thinks he's superman thats more likely to scrap because of the booze.

[piper]

I stand corrected on the marijuiana isnt a drug issue, its status is still iffy but the gov't HAS NOT as yet said it is for sure not a drug, its one of those gray areas right now. Cannabis, hash, hash oil etc are all listed under List II of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. And I still think weed is a drug, whether or not it is a plant. It alters the functioning of your brain and/or body and therefore is, technically a drug. Thats how I see it. Calling it a drug, plant, controlled substance or whatever does nothing at all, dosen't make it more or less illegal, and dosen't make it good or bad.

I once had a very bad earache, went to a very good doctor to have it checked out, and weed would have made the pain less for a bit, but I didn't get advised to smoke up. Neither have any of my friends who have gone into the doctor to get a tooth pulled, or a root canal done etc etc. Has anyone ever been advised to do this at all? Unless you have some sort of terminal illness I find that highly unlikely. Why, beause the doctor can go to jail if he tells you or helps to find weed for you, he/she would be charged with trafficking and thats really not a good thing to be charged with if you are a doctor.

[Lance]

I once had a very bad earache, went to a very good doctor to have it checked out, and weed would have made the pain less for a bit, but I didn't get advised to smoke up. Neither have any of my friends who have gone into the doctor to get a tooth pulled, or a root canal done etc etc. Has anyone ever been advised to do this at all? Unless you have some sort of terminal illness I find that highly unlikely. Why, beause the doctor can go to jail if he tells you or helps to find weed for you, he/she would be charged with trafficking and thats really not a good thing to be charged with if you are a doctor.

Use a little common sense. Its more or less obvious that theyre talking about more serious illnesses like glaucoma, cancer, AIDs, etc, extremely painful things, not stuff they give you ear drops or somethin for. Man, Ive bit my tongue on so much that youve said, and Ive had it. Youre ignorant. Learn to read between the lines, so people like me dont have to spell it out for you.

The doctor doesnt tell you or help you find weed (aside from extreme cases where it is persciption weed, which you need a "green card" for). He drops hints such as "patients in the past have found that marijuana eases the pain." Hes not even reccomending it, hes just telling you and leaving the decision solely on your shoulders. Therefore he wont be charged, and I mean, who in their right mind would charge a doctor for making a simple statement like that, in the "off chance" that it does help Id probably be thanking him before I got him put before a review board or tried to have his license taken away.

As for marijuana being a drug, Kris was right. Its a controlled substance and is listed as such by the Government. The government even awcknowledges that it does have potential medicinal purposes. Maybe it could help you get rid of this tunnel vision you seem to have.

[DaveKeane]

Well, in NZ, J-Day was Saturday. Somehow, the Student's Association at Vic Uni or Welington (who i have no choice but to be a member of) provided funding to NORML, the organisers of J-Day, to the tune of a few thousand NZD (closer to USD2000).

Personally, I didn't attend as I have no need not want to, and I was doing an assignment all day anyway. I have in the past indulged in a J on occasion, but have avoided it for about a year now, and have no intention of having another one.

Having been up for nearly 24 hours now, I've noticed the reactions when outrageously tired and high are quite similar.

[piper]

Use a little common sense. Its more or less obvious that theyre talking about more serious illnesses like glaucoma, cancer, AIDs, etc, extremely painful things, not stuff they give you ear drops or somethin for. Man, Ive bit my tongue on so much that youve said, and Ive had it. Youre ignorant. Learn to read between the lines, so people like me dont have to spell it out for you.

My reference to an earache was actually in sarcasm. Too bad there isn't some sort of thingy to put so that you get the sarcastic drift of my post. However, you can't really read between the lines with many of the posts put here, they are open and shut posts, either for weed or against as you might have noticed. Learn what these figures of speech mean before you throw them around. And by the way, even giving hints to using weed is enough to get charged for trafficking. And when, pray tell, has anyone on this site ever been told, or hinted at, by a doctor to smoke up for what ills them..anyone, ANYONE? And yes, it does have medicinal purposes in the eye of the government, just like asbestose (wrong spelling) was a great source of insulation, until they discovered the dangers of it. Weed will fry you brain eventually and lead to damage to your body. Don't avoid that fact, because it will happen. I don't have a narrow view on weed, I

[piper]

As for marijuana being a drug, Kris was right. Its a controlled substance and is listed as such by the Government. The government even awcknowledges that it does have potential medicinal purposes. Maybe it could help you get rid of this tunnel vision you seem to have.

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I said that too, after I actually referenced it and got the real facts, something some people should do on this site once in a while.

[Tomtom]

My reference to an earache was actually in sarcasm. Too bad there isn't some sort of thingy to put so that you get the sarcastic drift of my post.


CW uses {!} to denote sarcasm.

Please remember this for future posts.

Also, to all, no more references of your personal experiences with drugs or alcohol.

[Jiggy]

It's post traumatic stress syndrome and I've never heard of anyone taking marijuana for it. And for another, the people who admit to having it would most likely want to get rid of the problem and aren't looking for a stopgap solution. ?

Wouldnt any meds be that? personally, I have suffered with PTSS, and also other things and the meds I was put on had some massive effects on me ( lik enot getting out of bed, not eating, headaches, stomachaches) and the worst one being ADDICTION....if I didnt take my meds...I KNEW IT....now as far as I know there is no proven addicion to weed....Correct me on that one if Im wrong.

UNTIL they discovered the dangers of it. Weed will fry you brain eventually and lead to damage to your body. Don't avoid that fact, because it will happen. well, a lot of perfectly legal things will fry your brain and lead to damage to your body ( and family and income.....ever been in close contact with an alcohalic??)

[piper]

Also, to all, no more references of your personal experiences with drugs or alcohol.

Oops. I was using those references to prove that I'm not coming from a point of ignorance of whats what.

[wb256]

And by the way, even giving hints to using weed is enough to get charged for trafficking.

Really? Are you reffering to just doctors here? Also, this has nothing to do with moral reasons to legalize marijuana use (for medicinal or recreational purposes). It's an argument used when people run out of others. We're discussing the legal status of MJ, the fact that it is illegal already is not a valid point against legalizing it.


And when, pray tell, has anyone on this site ever been told, or hinted at, by a doctor to smoke up for what ills them..anyone, ANYONE?

I don't know, when I went to a doctor for depression? The same hints have been dropped to friends of mine with a variety of medicial problems.



And yes, it does have medicinal purposes in the eye of the government, just like asbestose (wrong spelling) was a great source of insulation, until they discovered the dangers of it.

That's some awful logic. We have yet to discover the ill effects of consuming lettuce, but I say ban it now just incase!

Marijuana's illegal because of a LOT of misconceptions and lies spread about it. Have you ever seen the movie "Reefer Madness"? It's an old propaganda movie used to try to help spread the anti-drug message. It relies upon lies and misconceptions...some of which have lasted long enough to make it into some posts on these boards.

While we're banning things based on old misconceptions, I say we ban tomatoes...you know they're poisionous! Also, we need to take women out of the workforce - they're smaller skulls OBVIOUSLY indiciate that they don't have the mental capacity to work alongside men (especially in jobs involving math or science). While we're at it lets revise all these ridiculous globes, THE WORLD IS FLAT!

Ok, I'm sure you get my point.


Weed will fry you brain eventually and lead to damage to your body. Don't avoid that fact, because it will happen. I don't have a narrow view on weed, I

umm...that's not a fact. There's no SCIENTIFIC evidence to suggest that marijuana does either (with the exception of lung problems, which only occour with HEAVY use).

There's a lot of pseudo-scientific research to prove that it does, however. I'll explain the difference.

Let's say you feed a rat nothing but marijuana for 4 weeks and then expose it to pnemonia and it dies. Now, psuedo-scientific research would immediatly deduce that marijuana causes immune system problems (which is exactly how that rumour got started). Scientific research would look into all possible causes of this immune system weakness (including malnutrition, which is what caused it in this case).

Another example would involve the idea that marijuana makes users lazy (the "anti-motivational syndrom" some police officers talk about in their presentations). Now, by viewing many drug users and their lifestyles, many would come to this conclusion. However, true scientific research would have to look at ALL possible causes for the syndrom, rather than blaming it on the THC's themselves (including sociological factors, which are likely the cause of this problem as well).

Suppertime, type more later

[piper]

Hmmmm....ok. I guess the doctor advising weed has happened. I stand corrected on that point. However, I look around at lots of potheads at my school and the pattern is kinda clear cut-burned out, crappy marks, lack of caring for much...you get the idea. Of course, there are also kids who smoke pot and get great marks and go to school all the time. Again, your view on this is directly related to your views of drug use. It can't be helped. And while we are talking about movies, ever seen Reqium for a Dream? If that dosen't make you want to never touch drugs, I don't know what will. And it's a no-s**t movie on the real deal with drug use. I'm guessing I'm really annoying alot of you pro-drug people, but hey, aren't opinions fun?

[wb256]

Hmmmm....ok. I guess the doctor advising weed has happened. I stand corrected on that point. However, I look around at lots of potheads at my school and the pattern is kinda clear cut-burned out, crappy marks, lack of caring for much...you get the idea. Of course, there are also kids who smoke pot and get great marks and go to school all the time. Again, your view on this is directly related to your views of drug use. It can't be helped. And while we are talking about movies, ever seen Reqium for a Dream? If that dosen't make you want to never touch drugs, I don't know what will. And it's a no-s**t movie on the real deal with drug use. I'm guessing I'm really annoying alot of you pro-drug people, but hey, aren't opinions fun?

The lack of motivation that occours as a result of marijuana use is quite likely linked to social factors. The lack of intelligence common amoung drug users is due to the fact that they learn little.

This is the result of irresponsible use of the drug. If someone was drunk that often, don't you think they'd be a little slow too? Occasional users don't suffer these effects, and numerous heavy users espcape these side effects as well.

Another issue involving the percieved low intellegence of marijuana users comes as a result of it's legal status. Due to the fact that marijuana is illegal, smokers are exposed to many other illegal drugs (acid, cocaine, heroin, mushrooms, etc) which can have a much more devestating effect on one's mental capacity and lifestyle. Many marijuana users currently dabble in harder drugs (but much more quietly) which would quite obviously cause some harm. By making marijuana legal and available through non-black market sources (and by making it legal to grow in one's own home) this ill-effect would be almost eliminated.

Requim for a dream amounted to little more than an anti-drug propaganda film. Plus, the movie is about coke and heroin, not marijuana - and therefore has little to do with this discussion. I'm not pro-drug use, I'm anti-marijuana prohibition. The law is doing little more than intensifying the problem and increasing hard drug use.

[Little Cadet]

I'm anti-marijuana prohibition.

Noo, you don't say! :eek:

[wb256]

Noo, you don't say! :eek:


I'm sure that's quite obvious. However, I don't like being labeled "pro-drug". I don't think everyone should go out and start smoking pot, I just think it should be legal to do so. The prohibition of marijuana (like the prohibition of alcohol in the past) is causing more social ills than it's curing. Gang activity would decrease a HUGE amount if it was legalized (I realize that gangs also have other sources of income, but this would deal a HUGE blow to many of them), and hard drug use would go down. Also, these laws turn people into criminals. When someone who is caught smoking pot and given a criminal record, they're also given a new role in society (eg, the jobs they can aquire are limited, etc). Their life is needlessly harmed, and they weren't even hurting anyone.

Also, "pro-drug" would imply that I support the use of other drugs (like coke or heroin or whatever). This couldn't be further from the truth.

[CONtroversial_subject]

A quick note on the trafficing statement. Hinting that weed would help with a medical problem is no where near trafficing. Its not even possession. To be charged with trafficing, you must actually make a sale of which they have evidence of, usually because the buyer is an undercover police officer. A more common way they catch drug dealers is by possession for the purpose, also something that hinting doesn't fall into. You must actually have atleast 30 grams of weed, or a smaller quantity that is seperated already (aka dimed up).

Anyways regarding the effects of marijuana. The majority of the "so called" side effects like warren said are nothing more than propoganda. Also, warren made a good point about gangs. Whenever you go to a mall or skytrain station, you see crews of weed dealers. Now these aren't the hardened gangsters that none of you care about, these are high school kids and high school dropouts trying to be gang bangers. Real drug dealers, the ones selling all the hard stuff, they dont hang out with a big crew all the time, they are usually with one or two other people, and their packing. They are also the ones that these kids end up getting killed by, for what? because they smoke weed and then take the next step to try and make some money off it. If it was legal in the first place, they wouldn't have ever got involved with that whole lifestyle and there would be less crime. Because weed is illegal, and because of its common use in every city in North America more and more teenagers are becoming criminals.

You say weed is a gateway drug, in a way you are right. Weed being illegal makes it a gateway to hard drugs and criminal activity. Weed being illegal is one of the leading causes to higher crime rates that exist today. It has become such a common substance that one in every 3 people u talk to probably smokes weed. So by it being illegal, the government is forcing 1 in every 3 people approximately to have some sort of involvement with illegal activity in order to get this. That is the gateway, not the actual drug or any of its effects, but the people you deal with to get the drug.

[piper]

Requim for a dream still referred to marijuiana as a gateway drug and showed how it can actually do that. I thought it was very well done, not some crummy 'propaganda' film. Its very easy to label things as 'evil propaganda' by our menacing government and dismiss them. Its harder to admit to the fact that some of these things aren't, and may actually have something important to say. And gang activity would not go down, they would just find something else illegal to do to make money. If marijuiana was legalised, yes, big source of income for the gov't and alot less for them to do on the war on drugs, but then whats next? Legalising cocaine, heroine etc etc? The problem with legalising drugs is that it leads to a slippery slope. Alcohol was easy enough because there was nothing above and beyond that was worse, tobacco was a bad idea anyways, but drugs are another story. If you legalise one, why not all the others? I'm not saying this is going to happen, but I am pointing out the fact that it may lead to that. I am anti-drug in the sense that its a rather crappy way to spend your time and money, but I don't look down on those who do it. Many of my friends like to dabble in drugs, or are rather humerous potheads. So I'm not calling any pro-drug peope out there idiots, just that I see what you do or believe on the subject of drugs is wrong (just to clear that up before I offend more people).

[piper]

[QUOTE=CONtroversial_subject]A quick note on the trafficing statement. Hinting that weed would help with a medical problem is no where near trafficing. Its not even possession. To be charged with trafficing, you must actually make a sale of which they have evidence of, usually because the buyer is an undercover police officer. A more common way they catch drug dealers is by possession for the purpose, also something that hinting doesn't fall into. You must actually have atleast 30 grams of weed, or a smaller quantity that is seperated already (aka dimed up).[QUOTE]

Wrong. Under the Criminal Code of Canada, you can be charged for Trafficking a Controlled Substance if you sell, give, lend, express intent to sell or give, assist another in selling or getting any controlled substanced defined or listed under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. Assisting involves telling that person where, how or WHY THEY SHOULD get the named substance. (The above is a shortened and simpliefied version of whats really in the CCC). If you lead your buddy to a school yard dealer because 'drugs are cool', you can be charged with trafficking. If your doctor tells you marijuiana would help your illness, the law DOES have grounds, albeit rather thin, for a charge of trafficking.

[sic_transit_gloria]

Did you know that the marijuanna that patients are given is crap?? It has about half the drugh t-h-something that 'black market' weed does, a lot of patients gave it back because it doesn't do anything..

But hey, what would you think of the government taxing and selling marijuanna, it's a natural resorce right?? And it's just as intoxicating as alcohol.. so instead of chopping down all those trees, let's start selling our Canadian weed!! Hah, one can only dream..

[Jiggy]

The problem with legalising drugs is that it leads to a slippery slope. Alcohol was easy enough because there was nothing above and beyond that was worse, tobacco was a bad idea anyways, but drugs are another story. If you legalise one, why not all the others? .

Ummmmmm Alcohal IS in fact a drug. What do you mean there is nothing above and beyond that was worse?? what about alcohal dependancy? ok so its not another drug...BUT it is a TERRIBLE thing. So we legalized alcohal....Why not everything else?

[piper]

Ummmmmm Alcohal IS in fact a drug. What do you mean there is nothing above and beyond that was worse?? what about alcohal dependancy? ok so its not another drug...BUT it is a TERRIBLE thing. So we legalized alcohal....Why not everything else?

Alcohol is not a terrible thing. Neither are drugs. There happens to be a difference between terrible and dumb.

[CONtroversial_subject]

Wrong. Under the Criminal Code of Canada, you can be charged for Trafficking a Controlled Substance if you sell, give, lend, express intent to sell or give, assist another in selling or getting any controlled substanced defined or listed under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. Assisting involves telling that person where, how or WHY THEY SHOULD get the named substance. (The above is a shortened and simpliefied version of whats really in the CCC). If you lead your buddy to a school yard dealer because 'drugs are cool', you can be charged with trafficking. If your doctor tells you marijuiana would help your illness, the law DOES have grounds, albeit rather thin, for a charge of trafficking.


I dont have time to go look up what it says word for word in the criminal code, however it is not grounds for trafficing to point out that weed has helped certain people deal with a disease or disorder. I know for a fact that in order to convict somebody of trafficing, you HAVE to get them to actually sell the drugs. If they dont actually sell it, the most you can get is possession for the purpose of trafficing and that is only if it is packaged a certain way or is 30 grams or more. Thats why cops go undercover for a long period of time in order to bust drug dealers. To name a situation, a year ago a heroin dealer was stopped by police, his vehicle was searched and they found 2 POUNDS of heroin, yet he wasn't arrested. Why? because all they had was possession for the purpose, a charge that isn't going to give him even half the sentence of trafficing. What you may be able to twist the book to say regardless, the police are NEVER going to arrest a doctor on those grounds, they'd probably lose their badge or at the very least get suspended for arresting someone of the most highly respected proffession in the world with absolutely no case.

With regards to gang activity. Obviously you didn't take the time to really think about what I said if you dont believe it would go down. It would effectively cut off all these mainly suberban kids from the entire lifestyle b/c their entry to it was no longer illegal. None of these "crews" ive seen at places like lougheed station, metro-town mall etc. are anything but a bunch of high school kids trying to peddle weed and because it is illegal they go and dress the part or whatever. It is usually too late for them once they end up in jail with a bunch of REAL criminals or some HA or crip steps to them on the street. The government's ignorance of their laws, is causing higher crime rates, causing the introduction of more youth outside the inner city to criminal lifestyles, and is costing the lives of kids your age cuz of what? peddling dimebags to pay for their habit. There is a criminal element to society that will never fully disapear, thats a fact however creating laws that lead to more people choosing this path is rediculous. Maybe if you had to go to as many funerals as I did you would realize the stupidity of these laws, and the harmful side-effects of the laws, rather than what the drug might do to you.

[CONtroversial_subject]

Did you know that the marijuanna that patients are given is crap?? It has about half the drugh t-h-something that 'black market' weed does, a lot of patients gave it back because it doesn't do anything..

What i've heard is that their stuff is better than any street product, atleast that is the case in BC. They have the ability to grow it in controlled situations with proper funding and regulations, without worry of police raids.

[wb256]

What i've heard is that their stuff is better than any street product, atleast that is the case in BC. They have the ability to grow it in controlled situations with proper funding and regulations, without worry of police raids.


They grow it properly, but they grind up the stalk and leaves and stems and everything into a powder apparently. So the THC content goes down due to the stems and stalks being added.

[wb256]

Requim for a dream still referred to marijuiana as a gateway drug and showed how it can actually do that. I thought it was very well done, not some crummy 'propaganda' film. Its very easy to label things as 'evil propaganda' by our menacing government and dismiss them. Its harder to admit to the fact that some of these things aren't, and may actually have something important to say. And gang activity would not go down, they would just find something else illegal to do to make money. If marijuiana was legalised, yes, big source of income for the gov't and alot less for them to do on the war on drugs, but then whats next? Legalising cocaine, heroine etc etc? The problem with legalising drugs is that it leads to a slippery slope. Alcohol was easy enough because there was nothing above and beyond that was worse, tobacco was a bad idea anyways, but drugs are another story. If you legalise one, why not all the others? I'm not saying this is going to happen, but I am pointing out the fact that it may lead to that. I am anti-drug in the sense that its a rather crappy way to spend your time and money, but I don't look down on those who do it. Many of my friends like to dabble in drugs, or are rather humerous potheads. So I'm not calling any pro-drug peope out there idiots, just that I see what you do or believe on the subject of drugs is wrong (just to clear that up before I offend more people).


No, it didn't show the reality of how marijuana is a gateway drug. It exagerated the problem and was ridiculous. How many marijuana users do you know who's lives end so horribly so quickly? The majority of them that I know are in university right now, and well on their way to being teachers and doctors and nurses and lawyers.

[wb256]

Alright, one more thing to add. This is another way to look at the situation.

The way it stands now, a LARGE percentage of Canada's population has tried marijuana. I forget the exact figures (they always display them for certain age ranges, etc), but I'm going to assume that it's quite high for those of working age.

Now, imagine if half of the working sector of our population all had criminal records. This is (assuming that 50% of working people have tried marijuana) what would happen if the current drug laws were enforced flawlessly. We'd be running low on people to fill SO many positions.

I personally know so many people in training to become professionals (or who have professional careers) who have tried marijuana. Teachers, professors, doctors, lawyers - we'd lose TONS of them if these laws were enforced.

Obviously any law that would give criminal records to such a huge portion of our population is ridiculous.

[piper]

Then maybye these people should not have tried weed in the first place, or gotten caught for it. If you break the law, you run the risk of getting caught, and if you do, don't ***** and whine, take your punishment because its you and you alone who is at fault. Anyways, and as to what ghetto superstar said above, you are wrong...again. What I descibed above as being grounds for a charge of trafficking is true, you don't HAVE to sell, you can give, 'lend' (how you would do that I don't know), help to get etc etc. Unless you can find a copy of the CCC and the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and post word-for-word the exact definition of what trafficking is and the grounds to be charged for it and it is different from what I said above, don't tell me I am wrong. If I put out the definition, don't you think I would have checked it first? If I'm going to put something like that out, I'll make sure I'm right.

There is also a difference between 'gangs' (weiner kids being cool in their mommy's car) and gangs(real criminals who are on a one way track to jail). Yeah, the little wanksters would be reduced, but the REAL gangs, and therefore the REAL problem, will not change. They still have to make money, so they'll sell something else, or do something else illegal to make that cash.

And finally, theres nothing wrong with a little experimentation, everyone does something like that once in their lives. However, if you can't figure out that its a rather dumb idea and you keep going and going with the drugs, this is where my problem starts.

[wb256]

Then maybye these people should not have tried weed in the first place, or gotten caught for it. If you break the law, you run the risk of getting caught, and if you do, don't ***** and whine, take your punishment because its you and you alone who is at fault. Anyways, and as to what ghetto superstar said above, you are wrong...again. What I descibed above as being grounds for a charge of trafficking is true, you don't HAVE to sell, you can give, 'lend' (how you would do that I don't know), help to get etc etc. Unless you can find a copy of the CCC and the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and post word-for-word the exact definition of what trafficking is and the grounds to be charged for it and it is different from what I said above, don't tell me I am wrong. If I put out the definition, don't you think I would have checked it first? If I'm going to put something like that out, I'll make sure I'm right.

There is also a difference between 'gangs' (weiner kids being cool in their mommy's car) and gangs(real criminals who are on a one way track to jail). Yeah, the little wanksters would be reduced, but the REAL gangs, and therefore the REAL problem, will not change. They still have to make money, so they'll sell something else, or do something else illegal to make that cash.

And finally, theres nothing wrong with a little experimentation, everyone does something like that once in their lives. However, if you can't figure out that its a rather dumb idea and you keep going and going with the drugs, this is where my problem starts.

Suggesting someone take drugs is not trafficing...there's no actual substance involved to be charged with. You can't be charged for talking, that's just ridiculous (I'm sorry, but you're WRONG).

Next: Yes, it's illegal. It shouldn't be, that's the point. Bringing up it's ilegality has NOTHING to do with this discussion (I've already said this).

The law dosn't allow for experimentation. The law says anyone posessing marijuana is a criminal. Maybe the law should say people who smoke it for more than a few years, would that fit in with your logic?

Anyways, you haven't taken a single thing I've posted with an open mind. I'm not going to run in circles with this anymore.

If anyone else wants to discuss this, I'm free.

Also, how about not taking cheap shots at Kris. Any credability you once had with me, has just been lost. I don't call you an ignorant loud mouthed redneck, so don't call him a ghetto superstar.

[Tomtom]

And finally, theres nothing wrong with a little experimentation, everyone does something like that once in their lives.


I wouldn't go quite that far. I'm sure there are many people who have never tried any sort of illegal drug.

[Lance]

Did you know that the marijuanna that patients are given is crap?? It has about half the drugh t-h-something that 'black market' weed does, a lot of patients gave it back because it doesn't do anything..

Well, theres this stuff called J-7 or something like that, and its possibly the most potent breed of indica marijuana on the planet, and its given as a form of chemotherapy to patients suffering from terminal illnesses. Its grown in controlled labs, and kept under tight security, although some of it does leak into mainstream drug land occasionally, Ive only come across it once (I saw someone with it, I didnt smoke it.) So, in response to that post, you are quite wrong. Perhaps some patients who find weed on their own get bad dope, or "shake", but perscription cannabis is by far, more potent than your average drug dealers.

[CONtroversial_subject]

Then maybye these people should not have tried weed in the first place, or gotten caught for it. If you break the law, you run the risk of getting caught, and if you do, don't ***** and whine, take your punishment because its you and you alone who is at fault.

For smoking weed? nobody is at fault. It shouldn't be a crime, the government can't prove it has any ill effects, and has never been able to give a legitimate reason to WHY it is illegal, it is an unjust law.


Anyways, and as to what ghetto superstar said above, you are wrong...again. What I descibed above as being grounds for a charge of trafficking is true, you don't HAVE to sell, you can give, 'lend' (how you would do that I don't know), help to get etc etc. Unless you can find a copy of the CCC and the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act and post word-for-word the exact definition of what trafficking is and the grounds to be charged for it and it is different from what I said above, don't tell me I am wrong. If I put out the definition, don't you think I would have checked it first? If I'm going to put something like that out, I'll make sure I'm right.


You are the right one, of course, the one who also reverts to insults like "Ghetto Superstar." Get a life buddy, you dont know jack **** about the topic. I know we were asked to revert from personal experiences but its the only way we are going to cut past all this bull**** and get to the real facts. I have been charged (charged, not convicted) of possession for the purpose of trafficing. I know first hand what it takes to get a conviction on a trafficing charge, and you couldn't be farther from it.



There is also a difference between 'gangs' (weiner kids being cool in their mommy's car) and gangs(real criminals who are on a one way track to jail). Yeah, the little wanksters would be reduced, but the REAL gangs, and therefore the REAL problem, will not change. They still have to make money, so they'll sell something else, or do something else illegal to make that cash.


I wasn't talking about real gangbangers, I was talking about the kids, who have no reason to be forced into the game over weed. I already said there will always be a criminal element to society, take the time to actually read posts before wasting our time having to break every little thing down for you.



And finally, theres nothing wrong with a little experimentation, everyone does something like that once in their lives. However, if you can't figure out that its a rather dumb idea and you keep going and going with the drugs, this is where my problem starts.

If by drugs you mean weed, that is nothing more than your opinion. One obviously based on an outsiders prospective.

[sic_transit_gloria]

Drugs are really a matter of personal choice. If someone wants to experiment with drugs, it's their problem. However, they should also face the consequences if they are caught with an illicit substance. I really don't understand what is soo great about drugs either. Sure you blaze, you get high and you have fun. But it only lasts so long before you need more weed more often because being high is so much better.. then that leads to worse drugs and it's just a downward spiral from there. Then there's the chance of getting into a whole lot of trouble with the law, getting a permanent record etc. Personally, I don't see what's so thrilling about it. I don't know, it's just so disappointing seeing my friends I went to elementary school with that used to want to be doctors, teachers and lawyers and such, the friends that had so much potential, now on the street, skipping school and using drugs. It's as if they've thrown a lot of their life away so soon. But hey, that's just me.

[wb256]

Well, theres this stuff called J-7 or something like that, and its possibly the most potent breed of indica marijuana on the planet, and its given as a form of chemotherapy to patients suffering from terminal illnesses. Its grown in controlled labs, and kept under tight security, although some of it does leak into mainstream drug land occasionally, Ive only come across it once (I saw someone with it, I didnt smoke it.) So, in response to that post, you are quite wrong. Perhaps some patients who find weed on their own get bad dope, or "shake", but perscription cannabis is by far, more potent than your average drug dealers.


Actually, you're wrong. They've been making a huge deal out of it in the media lately. They grow a potent strain of weed, but they're not doing it very well. Also (as I said before), they're adding the stalks into it, greatly decreasing it's potency. It was in the free press and on CBC radio.

Lots of dealers claim that they have government pot, when it's not usually that. There's this perception that the government has good pot (obviously they SHOULD, if they were the least bit competant), but it's apparently mostly just rumours.

[sic_transit_gloria]

Oooh, burn to you Lance. :p

[CONtroversial_subject]

Actually, you're wrong. They've been making a huge deal out of it in the media lately. They grow a potent strain of weed, but they're not doing it very well. Also (as I said before), they're adding the stalks into it, greatly decreasing it's potency. It was in the free press and on CBC radio.

Lots of dealers claim that they have government pot, when it's not usually that. There's this perception that the government has good pot (obviously they SHOULD, if they were the least bit competant), but it's apparently mostly just rumours.

Any dealer that claims to have gov't weed is lying, and it aint a very good lie neither. But the word on the street is that they do have good weed, but not many people have ever actually had it. I know that if the ppl growing it for all these dealers were allowed to grow for the government they'd have some amazing weed.

[piper]

Having an open mind does not mean I will agree to what any of you say. Yes, I take it all in and consider your points, yet my views remain. And you can call me a loud mouthed redneck (NOT ignorant), I don't mind. I refer to myself as that on occasion, actually. I've been called worse by better. So thats fine. And to Mr. Leitin (did I spell that right?), seeing as you have stopped typing in some sort of ebonics spinoff, the ignorant redneck takes back his ghetto superstar comment, seriously. And from what I have learned in law class and other sources, suggesting that you use weed can be used as grounds for trafficking, just very VERY thin grounds. I didn't say it happend often, just that the potential is there.

sic_transit_gloria, I thank you for your comment, finally someone who at least thinks in manner somewhat resembling mine.

Oustisiders perspective eh? I beg to differ. I will not use any more personal references on pain of being something or other by our moderator, but I am not one, I see it happening everyday, its almost a part of my life, my side of Ottawa isn't the one you see in the tourist pamphlets. So Mr. Leitin, I see it just like you do, I just happen to take the more mature and, in my opinion, wiser view that just because my friends are deep in the drug s*** dosen't mean I have to be too. Is anyone who takes the smart decision to not or to stop smoking dope considered 'not knowing' or an 'outsider'? Maybye that tells me something about you who said that, are you insecure that you yourself may be rejected because of your (possible) habits? Careful what you say, because I can spin it right back at you. And for those who have been convicted for a drug offence, are you proud of that, or do you regret it? I'm thinking you would regret it.

Maybye I should stop wasting my time arguing this, your all (those who disagree with me) going to keep your views and keep smoking the magic stuff and keep telling me that its ok for you its ok for you, just like any other doper does. And I'll just keep saying its bad for you, its bad for you, like any anti-drug ignorant bigoted opinionated redneck would. Maybye this subject should just be locked because it really is getting nowhere.

Meh, some people seem to be under the impression that if they tell me I'm being mean or bigoted, that I will care. Funny thing that, because I don't.

[CONtroversial_subject]

Oustisiders perspective eh? I beg to differ. I will not use any more personal references on pain of being something or other by our moderator, but I am not one, I see it happening everyday, its almost a part of my life, my side of Ottawa isn't the one you see in the tourist pamphlets. So Mr. Leitin, I see it just like you do, I just happen to take the more mature and, in my opinion, wiser view that just because my friends are deep in the drug s*** dosen't mean I have to be too. Is anyone who takes the smart decision to not or to stop smoking dope considered 'not knowing' or an 'outsider'? Maybye that tells me something about you who said that, are you insecure that you yourself may be rejected because of your (possible) habits? Careful what you say, because I can spin it right back at you. And for those who have been convicted for a drug offence, are you proud of that, or do you regret it? I'm thinking you would regret it.


Its Letain. Obviously I can type properly, but I was making a point. Just because somebody speaks with an accent or uses slang doesn't mean they are stupid, or trying to be ghetto. If you met me, maybe you'd get a clearer view, I speak with an accent and use slang, thats how I was raised and its who I am but for your convience I can turn on the whole square thing, I never would have made Chief in cadets if I couldn't.

Anyways, I wasn't talking about being an outsider to those who use drugs, I was talking about the legal aspect of it all. You can look up pages in the criminal code all you want but anybody who has dealt with or is a police officer knows that isn't the only book they gotta worry about, and any legal aid lawyer could get somebody off if they were charged the way you are talking about.

Oh and to answer your question, I have no regrets. Everything i've done is cuz I wanted to do it, unlike alotta people im not afraid of what the government might do to me, i've had to deal with alot worse things than prison.

[Lance]

Actually, you're wrong. They've been making a huge deal out of it in the media lately. They grow a potent strain of weed, but they're not doing it very well. Also (as I said before), they're adding the stalks into it, greatly decreasing it's potency. It was in the free press and on CBC radio.

Lots of dealers claim that they have government pot, when it's not usually that. There's this perception that the government has good pot (obviously they SHOULD, if they were the least bit competant), but it's apparently mostly just rumours.

Alright you used a source too... Ill give it to ya fair and square :p

and yea... burn to me... bummer duuuuuuuuuuuude

[wb256]

and keep smoking the magic stuff and keep telling me that its ok for you its ok for you, just like any other doper does.


Who said I smoked pot. Not in one of my posts did I ever make a reference to smoking it.

All I've said is that the laws are crap. They're not helping anyone, drug users or non-drug users. They have a FAR more detrimental effect to society than government controlled drug use would have.

[sic_transit_gloria]

Having an open mind does not mean I will agree to what any of you say. Yes, I take it all in and consider your points, yet my views remain. And you can call me a loud mouthed redneck (NOT ignorant), I don't mind. I refer to myself as that on occasion, actually. I've been called worse by better. So thats fine. And to Mr. Leitin (did I spell that right?), seeing as you have stopped typing in some sort of ebonics spinoff, the ignorant redneck takes back his ghetto superstar comment, seriously. And from what I have learned in law class and other sources, suggesting that you use weed can be used as grounds for trafficking, just very VERY thin grounds. I didn't say it happend often, just that the potential is there.

sic_transit_gloria, I thank you for your comment, finally someone who at least thinks in manner somewhat resembling mine.

Oustisiders perspective eh? I beg to differ. I will not use any more personal references on pain of being something or other by our moderator, but I am not one, I see it happening everyday, its almost a part of my life, my side of Ottawa isn't the one you see in the tourist pamphlets. So Mr. Leitin, I see it just like you do, I just happen to take the more mature and, in my opinion, wiser view that just because my friends are deep in the drug s*** dosen't mean I have to be too. Is anyone who takes the smart decision to not or to stop smoking dope considered 'not knowing' or an 'outsider'? Maybye that tells me something about you who said that, are you insecure that you yourself may be rejected because of your (possible) habits? Careful what you say, because I can spin it right back at you. And for those who have been convicted for a drug offence, are you proud of that, or do you regret it? I'm thinking you would regret it.

Maybye I should stop wasting my time arguing this, your all (those who disagree with me) going to keep your views and keep smoking the magic stuff and keep telling me that its ok for you its ok for you, just like any other doper does. And I'll just keep saying its bad for you, its bad for you, like any anti-drug ignorant bigoted opinionated redneck would. Maybye this subject should just be locked because it really is getting nowhere.

Meh, some people seem to be under the impression that if they tell me I'm being mean or bigoted, that I will care. Funny thing that, because I don't.


I think that you should understand that everyone has a different opinion about what is 'good' for them and whether or not they will choose do drugs. That's great that you don't, but just because you think it's bad, you don't have to shove your views down other people's throats and use the exuse that you're a redneck. How do you know what's bad before you have both sides of 'the truth?? It's like looking through a glass window. To see the truth, you can't look at your reflection in the glass, you have to look through it and see into the other person's world.When you can consider both sides, and really understand them, then you've been able to see something with an open mind. I'm not condoning drug use, just an open mind.

[piper]

And people haven't tried to shove their pro drug views down my throat? I haven't done any 'shoving, I simply expressed my views, like everyone else. Why is it if you share the general opinion, voicing it is considered OK, but if you go against the grain of the conversation or say what no one else will say, it is seen as forcing it on others? I seem to be the bad guy because I try to give the straight-ish deal on the anti-drug side and express it as such; but others, say Mr Letain, who try to give the straight goods on the pro-weed (by this I mean pro legalization) are appluaded. Strange. At least we have all seen the general political/social/economic views of most of the people who posted here, so you all needed a right-winger just to make the conversations interesting.

Also, I used the redneck thing as a little humour in my generally boring posts. And, for the last bloody time, I have seen both sides and all in between, so I figure I am in just as good a position to discuss this from a point of knowledge as anyone else. Just because I am not for legalization or whatever dosen't mean I don't know whats what. That is a common steroetype of the anti-drug person, which is actually rather far from the truth.

[CONtroversial_subject]

The reason people keep putting that "stereotype" in your face is because the fact of the matter is there shouldn't be a side to this issue. We call ourselves a free country that should be it, if people want to use drugs, that is their decision and nobody elses, if they dont nobody is forcing you, but anti-legalization ARE forcing those who do choose to use drugs to suffer rediculous consequences simply to satisfy your moral outrage.

[piper]

Theres two sides to just about every kind of issue you can think of, so get used to it. And as long as people who are anti-drug are in positions of power, the status quo will remain until public opinion gets too strong to resist or the above named get voted/pushed out. Why don't you just drop the legalization thing...weed and drugs are not good for you, shoving smoke down your lungs is bad for you regardless, if you want that smoke cigarettes, they happen to be legal. Why would you voluntarily reduce your short term memory, intelligence etc (again, weed does have this effect on you...don't say it does not, it will catch up to you eventually)? Why would you break the law and run the risk of a record for the above things...kind of dumb isn't it? If your going to fight for something 'right' (which drugs are not) fight for something worthwhile. Or just do something else with your life instead of smoking up or try to legitimize people who do. Thats all I have to say, you want to continue to use drugs, weed or support those who do, fine, thats your choice if not necessarily your right (breaking the law isn't a right), but one day you should look back and think of all the money, brain cells and time you wasted fighting for something that wasen't really worthwhile in the first place.

[CONtroversial_subject]

OMG! Thanks mother. we appreciated the completely loyal and undoubting trust in our government. The reality of it is you're out of touch with society, stuck in the past with all that propaganda. You can spin your writing whatever way you want, and you still haven't hit a reason WHY marijuana is bad for you. You just blindly believe proganda that says that it is without actually providing any factual reasons.

[Lance]

Theres two sides to just about every kind of issue you can think of, so get used to it. And as long as people who are anti-drug are in positions of power, the status quo will remain until public opinion gets too strong to resist or the above named get voted/pushed out. Why don't you just drop the legalization thing...weed and drugs are not good for you, shoving smoke down your lungs is bad for you regardless, if you want that smoke cigarettes, they happen to be legal. Why would you voluntarily reduce your short term memory, intelligence etc (again, weed does have this effect on you...don't say it does not, it will catch up to you eventually)? Why would you break the law and run the risk of a record for the above things...kind of dumb isn't it? If your going to fight for something 'right' (which drugs are not) fight for something worthwhile. Or just do something else with your life instead of smoking up or try to legitimize people who do. Thats all I have to say, you want to continue to use drugs, weed or support those who do, fine, thats your choice if not necessarily your right (breaking the law isn't a right), but one day you should look back and think of all the money, brain cells and time you wasted fighting for something that wasen't really worthwhile in the first place.

Okay, now youre just trying to force your personal views and opinions on us. Dont say youre not, because you openly admitted it by saying "try to legitimize people who do." Just because you dont think its right, doesnt mean others HAVE to share the same view. Get with the times bud. maybe it just might beworthwile to some people... obviously not you

[piper]

And just because I don't believe that drugs are not bad does not mean I should have those views forced on me. So basically, it seems like I'm talking to a solid brick wall with most of you, and likewise, you are talking a brick wall with respect to me, therefore, I cease my arguing. I'm tired of typing all this junk.

[Lance]

No, we're rebutting, because you cant seem to accept that we have seperate opinions. And in turn, you rebutt, and try (although you also fail) to push your opinions onto us again. Im really gettin kinda sick of it too, all this stuff youre typin like "blah blah blah drugs are bad and so are people that do them" you know what? thats your opinion, fine have it, but if youre gonna express it, you should start saying this is my opinion not yours, casue Im getting tired of your one sided bull **** tunnel vision

[The Blue Tory]

And just because I don't believe that drugs are not bad does not mean I should have those views forced on me. So basically, it seems like I'm talking to a solid brick wall with most of you, and likewise, you are talking a brick wall with respect to me, therefore, I cease my arguing. I'm tired of typing all this junk.
no one can force or make you to do anything... All they do is merely attempt to influence your decision making to choose their choice over the other...

By the way, no one asked you to argue, they presented points against your view, you chose to respond and further the argument and hostilities... but its nice to see you taking responsibility and leaving this thread by keeping your view, yet refusing to continue to try to impose your ideas on others...

[Lance]

didnt other people in history try and impose their views on people? like Hitler...

[Tomtom]

So.... Anymore room for quality conversation, or is the thread all about personal attacks now?

[Jiggy]

Drugs are really a matter of personal choice. If someone wants to experiment with drugs, it's their problem. However, they should also face the consequences if they are caught with an illicit substance. I really don't understand what is soo great about drugs either. Sure you blaze, you get high and you have fun. But it only lasts so long before you need more weed more often because being high is so much better.. then that leads to worse drugs and it's just a downward spiral from there. Then there's the chance of getting into a whole lot of trouble with the law, getting a permanent record etc. Personally, I don't see what's so thrilling about it. I don't know, it's just so disappointing seeing my friends I went to elementary school with that used to want to be doctors, teachers and lawyers and such, the friends that had so much potential, now on the street, skipping school and using drugs. It's as if they've thrown a lot of their life away so soon. But hey, that's just me.

how many times has it been said on this topic that weed is only a gateway drug for people who ALLOW it to be????? There are SO many people who have been smoking weed who would NEVER try anything else. Get your facts straight. And Of course your friends wanted to be teacher, doctors and lawyers. And then weed went and changed that. im sure A LOT of teacher doctors and lawyers have done it and Im sure a lot of people who smoke weed dont skip school and ARENT on the street.....

[piper]

Ok, THIS is my last post. SO I now been compared to Hitler...interesting, I guess I'll go grow my moustache now. So you are all saying that me telling you drugs are bad is forcing my view on you, but you telling me (more or less) that weed is not bad for you is a fair opinion. Odd, who has tunnel vision now? You can't seem to accept that some people choose not to use weed anymore and will actually express their views about it. Too bad, I hope I didn't cause you all to much grief having to respond to my oh-so-mean and nasty posts, and am I ever sorry that I tried to force my wicked anti-drug views on you. Actually, wait, I'm not sorry. I don't care.

Funny, the right-wing wacko was actually the only person here who tried to refrain from directed personal attacks; and all the nice, accepting and open for anyone's view pro-weed folks began to compare me to hitler. Funny thing, and I never said people who smoke dope are bad (I have friends who do it...alot), just that the drugs are a bad idea. Yeah, those friends of mine who do weed, some are on a one way track to a crappy life, but thats their decision. Too bad you guys have to resort to personal attacks to try to defend your views, I happen to be rather disappointed, I expected better.

[sic_transit_gloria]

how many times has it been said on this topic that weed is only a gateway drug for people who ALLOW it to be????? There are SO many people who have been smoking weed who would NEVER try anything else. Get your facts straight. And Of course your friends wanted to be teacher, doctors and lawyers. And then weed went and changed that. im sure A LOT of teacher doctors and lawyers have done it and Im sure a lot of people who smoke weed dont skip school and ARENT on the street.....

Where in post did I say it was a gateway drug?!?! All I said is that it's a personal choice and if people get caught they should have to pay the consquences.. personally, I think it's stupid to throw your future away with drugs.. because eventually that's what smoking weed will do to you *if* you keep smoking weed. Tell me one good thing where habitually smoking pot can get someone ahead in life?? I don't know.. that's just my view on it, it's a valid point that smoking weed long term is unhealthy not only to you, but to your future.. at least, that's what I believe. I wasn't saying that everyone that smokes weed does crack or meth or thel like.. your whole post was just stating what I already know..

[CONtroversial_subject]

Ok, THIS is my last post. SO I now been compared to Hitler...interesting, I guess I'll go grow my moustache now. So you are all saying that me telling you drugs are bad is forcing my view on you, but you telling me (more or less) that weed is not bad for you is a fair opinion. Odd, who has tunnel vision now? You can't seem to accept that some people choose not to use weed anymore and will actually express their views about it. Too bad, I hope I didn't cause you all to much grief having to respond to my oh-so-mean and nasty posts, and am I ever sorry that I tried to force my wicked anti-drug views on you. Actually, wait, I'm not sorry. I don't care.

Funny, the right-wing wacko was actually the only person here who tried to refrain from directed personal attacks; and all the nice, accepting and open for anyone's view pro-weed folks began to compare me to hitler. Funny thing, and I never said people who smoke dope are bad (I have friends who do it...alot), just that the drugs are a bad idea. Yeah, those friends of mine who do weed, some are on a one way track to a crappy life, but thats their decision. Too bad you guys have to resort to personal attacks to try to defend your views, I happen to be rather disappointed, I expected better.

no attacks? you insulted me in almost every post you made while we tried to not make any attacks. You pushed it to this. Its not that you think drugs are made that people have an issue with. Its that you believe that your belief of drugs being bad including weed is a good enough one to keep them illegal. Regardless of whether they are bad or good, people should have the LEGAL choice if they wish to use them. Sorry but dude made a good point about Hitler, he was somebody who forced his views of what was right and wrong on everybody else, and regardless of what you say, that is EXACTLY what you are doing here. So you dont like drugs, dont use them, that doesn't mean they still shouldn't be legalized. I hate heroin, I hate cocaine, I hate all that crap, but you know what? it isn't my place to say that people who use that should go to jail. Its their life, and true freedom means being able to do what one wishes as long as it doesn't stop others from doing what they wish.

[Jiggy]

Where in post did I say it was a gateway drug?!?! All I said is that it's a personal choice and if people get caught they should have to pay the consquences.. personally, I think it's stupid to throw your future away with drugs.. because eventually that's what smoking weed will do to you *if* you keep smoking weed. Tell me one good thing where habitually smoking pot can get someone ahead in life?? I don't know.. that's just my view on it, it's a valid point that smoking weed long term is unhealthy not only to you, but to your future.. at least, that's what I believe. I wasn't saying that everyone that smokes weed does crack or meth or thel like.. your whole post was just stating what I already know..
ACTUALLY "all you said" was : But it only lasts so long before you need more weed more often because being high is so much better.. then that leads to worse drugs and it's just a downward spiral from there. Do you think drinking an ocasioanla beer is throwing your life away? just cause you smoke an ocasional joint doesnt mean that you have no future.

[sic_transit_gloria]

Ok, so sure it's not true for *everyone*, but it can and does happen.. look.. I know smoking an ocasional joint won't destroy someone's future.. it's just that some people take it too far for whatever reasons and get caught up in it and it's really hard to turn back.. but bottom line is that it's a personal choice and whether people decide to do drugs or not is their decision.

[Jiggy]

Ok, so sure it's not true for *everyone*, but it can and does happen.. look.. I know smoking an ocasional joint won't destroy someone's future.. it's just that some people take it too far for whatever reasons and get caught up in it and it's really hard to turn back.. but bottom line is that it's a personal choice and whether people decide to do drugs or not is their decision.
THAT I can agree with. Some people can , some cant, its the same for alcohal. But you really make more sense in that post, not so stereotype.

[Tomtom]

Okay Okay, take it to PM or MSN.