CO's Changing Elements

[Gunz4life]

Hello All
It's been years since I last posted in CW but I am stuck on something and figured someone here could probably answer my question. I am looking for the regulation on this as well. If an officer is about to take over a unit, but is not the same element as the unit, are they required to become that element? If so where is the regulation on this? For example if an Army officer was to take over a Sea Cadet Corps do they have to become a naval officer and where is the reg?

[Rhino Rob]

2804 Army's first CO was Air. 632 Air's CO is currently Army.

I see no issue, especially if this may be a short term affair. If this becomes long term, then perhaps it may be worth switching sides.

[Neo]

Hello All
It's been years since I last posted in CW but I am stuck on something and figured someone here could probably answer my question. I am looking for the regulation on this as well. If an officer is about to take over a unit, but is not the same element as the unit, are they required to become that element? If so where is the regulation on this? For example if an Army officer was to take over a Sea Cadet Corps do they have to become a naval officer and where is the reg?

RCSCC ADMIRAL NELLES' CO was for awhile an Army CIC Officer.

[N. McKay]

No regulation that I'm aware of, and I know of at least three recent examples of air force officers in command of sea cadet units in New Brunswick.

[Armoured Recce NB]

No regulation that I'm aware of, and I know of at least three recent examples of air force officers in command of sea cadet units in New Brunswick.

My grandfather was an Air Force officer and when he retired from the RegF he was the CO of an Army Cadet corps for 4 years. He never switched elements as he said that after he got his blue uniform back, he would never wear green again:)
An Air Force LCOL, being paid as a major and commanding an Army Cadet corps must have been quite the anomoly :)

[GWP]

No regulation that I'm aware of, and I know of at least three recent examples of air force officers in command of sea cadet units in New Brunswick.

There is no regulation, but if it is deemed appropriate, with the RCOs approval and a personnel record transaction it is as simple as turning in one kit and being issued another.

[Navalair]

There is no regulation, but if it is deemed appropriate, with the RCOs approval and a personnel record transaction it is as simple as turning in one kit and being issued another.

I'm not sure if this is region specific or not, but Central Region requires that when an officer transfers from one element to another they must first complete the elemental course. I know an Army CIC officer who wanted to become an Air officer was given this information. She had been an air cadet within the last seven years and had left as a WO2.

[Logan]

There is a statement in the dress regulations that states CIC officers "are allocated an environmental identity which matches that of their cadet corps/squadron." Ch 2 Section 1 Para 12b

The way I read it, I take it to mean that CIC Officers are to be uniformed in the same environmental identity as the cadet unit they parade with.

The only thing is that contradicts something earlier in the same section that says "Reserve members of a branch identified with more than one element are allocated an identity on enrolment" (Ch 2 Section 1 Para 9) and "that once assigned, environmental identity is retained for a career" ( Ch 2 Section 1 Para 10)

[N. McKay]

There is a statement in the dress regulations that states CIC officers "are allocated an environmental identity which matches that of their cadet corps/squadron." Ch 2 Section 1 Para 12b

The way I read it, I take it to mean that CIC Officers are to be uniformed in the same environmental identity as the cadet unit they parade with.

That's how I read it as well, but fortunately common sense has prevailed over enforcement of that section.

[TBird]

The CF Dress Instructions contain a sufficient number of contradictory and inaccurate statements to have brought the document perilously close to complete obsolescence; at least in many sections.

[Lt(N) R. Molitor]

There is no policy. As far as the CF is concerned, out MOSID is CIC Officer.. the rank is added later for further clarification. CIC Officers can be any element and most often it is the element of their local unit.

It is, however, a regional policy in most regions that the CO will be the same element as the unit they are commanding. I know in Eastern region this isn't always the course. I was approached to take over an air unit and said I would not change uniforms and was told there was no need; that region does not force a change.

[Lt(N) R. Molitor]

And by regional policy I mean unspoken, unwritten.

The really official kind

[Cadpat Sailor]

Must be nice - I remember back when I was a wee officer cadet....I volunteered with a sea unit as I had class on the night the army unit paraded (I was attached to the region) ... Let's just say the response from the army side was not pleasant.

[Cadpat Sailor]

And I was just a supo - not a co ;)

[TBird]

I think that had more to do with where their people were - rather than the DEU, though.

[shootemup]

Pac Region requires that the TrgO or CO of a corps/squadron adopt that environmental identity on completion of the applicable environmental training course. Officers in any other capacity with a corps or squadron may retain their Army/Navy/Airforce identity regardless.

[toad]

I've been told that a different element officer can parade with the corps but if they becom CO then they should be the same element. I've made the switch to navy from army since I'm next inline to be CO. I still have to do the SETC (in house) but the DL part made me more familiar with the sea element.

[DA Wright]

It seems to be somewhat region-dependant whether an officer has to switch DEU to match that of the cadet unit they are attached to. It also seems to vary somewhat with time.

In Cen Reg, there was a period where there was strong pressure to switch DEU to match the element one was attached to, and it was a requirement for COs. This was policy and clearly communicated, though a few managed to squeak by and avoid that fate.

The current trend here seems to be that corps/sqn officers can be of any DEU, though the Trg O ought to have sound knowledge of the elemental program. For COs, it is depends on how one became CO: if a member trasfers units for their own reasons (variety, relocation, scheduling conflict, etc.), there is often pressure or clear direction to change DEU; however, if the RCSU/Det requests/requires/arm-twists the member to take over a unit of another element, the member has some bargaining power and can usually retain their original DEU.

[a.rodd]

So, if an officer is in a different element than their cadet unit, would they wear the cap badge of their element, or of the cadets' element?

[N. McKay]

So, if an officer is in a different element than their cadet unit, would they wear the cap badge of their element, or of the cadets' element?

You'd wear your own element's cap badge. (Actually, there is a tri-service CIC cap badge, but I've never seen one in use.)