Should Canada be Bilingual? [Archive]

UnluckyLove

5th July 2004, 11:19

(nice one, Sor)

I definitely think Canada should be bilingual...I love french, but my mum wouldn't put me in immersion, so I just bought a french english dictionary and a besherelle (sp?) book to help me with conjugating and im at the top of my class (other thn the peopl that went to immersion) and im taking it all through highschool.
In quebec, so many people speak english, it's crazy! My dad's friend Louis lives in Montreal with his son, Olivier, and his english was so much better then my french, and ive been teaching myself french since i got the books in grade 5!! Honestly, people that speak english should work on their french more, they work hard on their english, so why don't we do that with their language??

EM

M. Ward

5th July 2004, 11:28

One problem I find is that Anlgophone-Canadians tend to not care about learning French, and expect everything to be English when they go to Quebec, how ever a good number of French Canadians realise that most of Canada is English (Although the Majority is becoming a Minoirty in the sense that Non-English > English. Might not be like that yet. I don't personally know.) and that they can't expect every villiage, town and city to be French Friendly. I know some French Canadians are Anti-English and don't want to be part of Canada (See: Black October, The October Crisis, FLQ) and some English people are Pro-French Canadian. Im just saying..

And im not just trying to stick up for my the province I was born in (Doug, im looking in your general direction. :p). Heck, I was born in an English suburb of Montreal, not a French one. :)

Bando Commando

5th July 2004, 11:40

Don't you glare at me, PO...I still own you... *devilish laugh*

Nah, I wish I had stayed in French. The more you can do, the better the job you will get...

Ahhh well....c'est la vie.... <--almost all the French I know, right there!

M.Griffith

5th July 2004, 12:21

Well i will say it. I am an english only person and do not plan to learn french. which means with current laws i will never be a pilot for Air Canada, thats a lot of the job market.

as some one said above 'the more you can do the better' well that is not entirly true.

nationaly most government employes in a posision of authority (managment/supervisor) are qubecers that have been moved cause they are bilingual except in qubec were most speak french only. well here in alberta where the main language is english; a group of federal employes that only speak english took the government to court over there practice of only promoting biligual/displaced qubecers to thoes posisions even when there were more qualified english only speaking people. well the fed's lost, the judge ruled that the goverments promotion practices were discriminatory based on language. because of that ruling some individuals have been demoted and or relocated (mainly to qubec) and the govermnent has had to change to a more language representational system. alberta is mainly english, there for being able to speak french is no longer a requirement to get a management job. but it is a definate asset.

prettypinksailor

5th July 2004, 12:51

I definetly think canada should be a bilingual country. Actually canada is more like a multi-lingual country if you think about it because although french and english are our nations national languages we have people from many other cultures around the world that speak many different languages-Korean Vietnamese Spanish Phillipino Japanese Chinese and quite a few more. Not only that is the First Nations peoples have there only languages so canada is more MultiLingual then Bilingual

Sarah209

5th July 2004, 14:48

Okay, next year will be my 3rd year in French Immersion, I really hate when people say Canada shouldn't be billingual, why because people are different.And if you are totally french like some people I know, you can't get around in Canada if you only know all french and simple words like "hello"...hmmm... I guess Quebec isn't completley French, obviously there's tons (well not tons) of english ppl. Plus, Canada IS bilingual which means two official languages(duh)... so i think we should all try and know some french when most of the French people know a lot of english. Canada being french and english is really great...

Earlam

5th July 2004, 20:50

I think this poll needs options 3 and 4.
3) Multilingual (greater consideration for more minority languages)
4) Official languages are no longer required (people can communicate however they communicate, within reason <Canadian federal gov't forms available only in Swahili is outside of reason>).

I think it's good that the large French-speaking minority is represented.
Unfortunately, I can find alot bad about the system than I can good.
i) What about us areas where French is very minor and other languages (Ukranian, for example) are much more popular? Why should we have an official language based on the needs of 3 or 4 provinces in the East imposed upon us in the West?
ii) There definitely is language-discrimination when you get to the upper levels of our government. This, I believe, is wrong.

I feel like I've argued this a thousand times...... and I probably have.
So I'll sum it up:
Representation of French language - good.
Overrepresentation of French at expense of freedom - bad.
Discrimination - bad.
Domination of Canada by East - bad.

Everything I could argue would probably fit into one of the above categories, if I tried hard enough (though my points might not make much sense if I tried to cut them into those categories, I'm sure someone would still get them).

BMaloney

5th July 2004, 21:01

I think we should be totally Bilingual.

There's really no need in giving the Bloc more fuel for their incessant ramblings.

wb256

5th July 2004, 22:39

Should Cnada be Bilingual? Yes. But that dosn't mean that everyone NEEDS to know French.

It just means that the government and services throughout the country are available in both official languages. This helps Francophones when visiting Anglo areas and Anglos visiting French areas.

Also, if all government services were provided only in English, that would be a HUGE kick in the teeth to everyone in Quebec. I don't see why we should take away their right to things like a trial in their own language.

Now if you actually meant whether or not French should we a part of the elementary school cirriculum, then I also support it. Learning a second language makes it so much easier for kids to learn a third or a fourth. The point of schooling at that age is hardly to teach knowledge to remember for the rest of your life - it's to teach kids how to learn. How many people remember the average rainfall of poland, or whatever information you gathered for your geography assignments?

Also, learning a second language helps people further understand linguistics, furthering their understanding of their native language in the process.

Plus it's just useful to know a bit of French, or any second language in such a multi-cultural and global society.

Rubberducky

6th July 2004, 00:57

GIDuce

6th July 2004, 06:14

Canada is a extremly diverse country and sure english is the majority by far but but french is the biggest minority. When this country was formed we had almost only english and french speaking people here . Were not going to make a new official lanuage every time someone who speaks a different language moves here.Think about it if lets say a 1,000,000 mexicans, a 1,000,000 Italians and 1,000,000 chinese people paced up and decided hummm Russia sure is a nice place to live and they all go there would you expect Russia to make Italian,Spanish, and Chinese all official languages? Sure it would benifit a few but not the population overall.

N. McKay

6th July 2004, 06:42

When we talk about Canada being a bilingual country, we mean that citizens may interact with the federal government in English or French, as they choose. We don't mean that everyone has to learn both languages (in fact, having a bilingual country really means that unilingual people don't have to learn the other language, as far as interacting with the government is concerned).

Bilingualism is hugely expensive, but the cost is justified by the very large francophone minority in Canada (I don't have an exact figure at hand, but it's traditionally been in the order of 1/4 to 1/3 of the population). There's also the issue of the great role that French-speaking people have played in Canada's founding and early history.

Adding more official languages would not be so easily justified. That's not to say that people shouldn't be free to speak whatever language they like, but rather that the government shouldn't be compelled to provides services in numerous languages to accommodate a number of relatively small groups.

wb256

6th July 2004, 07:40

How about chinese , Japanese and other languages? Canadians are not
just French and English. We have vast immigrants comming to our country
with many different language back grounds. French being minority and their languages being a minority, I think they should be treated equaly.Since English is a majority it should be the only language. To stop confusion
of many languages and cost.

However I encourage learning different languages. It broadens communication and interpetation. In away music does. :)

But is there one large geographic area where people speak exclusivly chinese or japanese within Canada's borders? There's no reason why French people should be assimilated in a multi-cultural society, especially when they lived here before the country was even formed!

The only other official languages I could forsee adding (to ease interaction with the federal government) is native american languages. These people didn't immigrate to Canada, they were forced to become a part of it.

However, the size of the native community that speaks stricktly indigenous languages is fairly small these days, so native language issues can mostly be covered by putting translators in northern communities, hiring translators if they're in legal trouble, or whatever. All Air Canada pilots shouldn't be required to be fluent in every native tongue that exists in Canada, but first nations people should have the opportunity to communicate in their own language for certain functions that are vital to them.

This all comes because I think it's time that our government starts working with our native population (especially those living on reserves) and making our government work FOR them, rather than our government dealing with "the native problem" for all of us whites (which is what they're doing now).

Earlam

6th July 2004, 10:51

.....

Pardon?

I was saying (I guess not as clearly as I could have) that bilingualism is essentially an eastern policy.
Here in Manitoba, we have the largest Francophone population east of Ontario. And they don't account for a huge minority of the population. Even here, people of Ukranian descent outnumber them. And French gets less and less popular as you go farther west.
So really, official languages for the entire country are dictated by the population of two provinces. While these two provinces are the biggest, it is still unfair to the rest of the country.
There are francophone populations throughout the country that benefit from the policy (Manitoba, New Brunswick, et cetera), but they are, pretty much, getting the table scraps of Central Canada's policy.

Rubberducky

6th July 2004, 11:39

But is there one large geographic area where people speak exclusivly chinese or japanese within Canada's borders? There's no reason why French people should be assimilated in a multi-cultural society, especially when they lived here before the country was even formed!

The only other official languages I could forsee adding (to ease interaction with the federal government) is native american languages. These people didn't immigrate to Canada, they were forced to become a part of it.

However, the size of the native community that speaks stricktly indigenous languages is fairly small these days, so native language issues can mostly be covered by putting translators in northern communities, hiring translators if they're in legal trouble, or whatever. All Air Canada pilots shouldn't be required to be fluent in every native tongue that exists in Canada, but first nations people should have the opportunity to communicate in their own language for certain functions that are vital to them.

This all comes because I think it's time that our government starts working with our native population (especially those living on reserves) and making our government work FOR them, rather than our government dealing with "the native problem" for all of us whites (which is what they're doing now).

Good statement. However, it will be headed through chaos. One language makes things simple.

ashcrbra

6th July 2004, 20:53

BMaloney

6th July 2004, 21:38

We may as well enforce Newspeak (for any Orwellian fans out there.).

It really comes down to the practicality of the situation. English and French are completely understandable as to why they're the two official languages; the others, not so much.

But of course, if you want to go to Quebec and try to force English down their throats, you can try first and I'll just stay here in Ontario.

big_castor

7th July 2004, 10:57

Canada should have one main language that everyone knows. That should be English because a lot of the dominant countries in the world use it.
I imagine that your feelings towards "one language only in Canada" would be different if you were part of the linguistic minority instead of the majority.

I say this because bilingualism is getting to be a hassle

Yeah, those pesky bilingual cereal boxes.... Quite a hassle.

M. Ward

7th July 2004, 11:13

Canada should have one main language that everyone knows. That should be English because a lot of the dominant countries in the world use it. I say this because bilingualism is getting to be a hassle. And if we move to include other languages such as Chinese and Japanese we'll have even bigger problems because we'll need people that know multiple languages to run everything which gets messy for everyone. If we have one main language everyone will be able to communicate effectively. People can speak what ever language they want in their own homes but everyone needs to be able to speak English so everyone can communicate effectively.

Well, you have a point. We'd at least be able to understand what they're yelling when they're throwing rocks and rotton tomatoes at us because we are taking away their language, which is part of the culture. While we're at it, let's erase their history to! Yay for conformity! ...

Canada is just fine the way it is. If anything, we should be more accepting of other languages.

wb256

7th July 2004, 16:14

For whoever said we need to do away with bilingualism because "it's a hassel" do you know ANYTHING about sociology, cultural anthropology, or more specifically, the formation of ethnic identities?

It's quite clear that you don't. Also, you haven't taken time to think of the HUGE economic and political disadvantage you're putting French people at are you?

Anyways, I would take the time to explain these things, but I'm late for my tree hugging hippy festival.

I'll post more when I get back on monday

TiffanyAbbott

7th July 2004, 17:18

I'm all for bilingualism! i think being able to speak two languages would be awesome! I don't mean like rite away but eventually it would be nice if canada was a bilingual country!

Thib

7th July 2004, 19:25

Canada should have one main language that everyone knows. That should be English because a lot of the dominant countries in the world use it. I say this because bilingualism is getting to be a hassle.

If we are a hassle we can just leave if you want... We ask you in WW1 and the other provinces never gave an answer...

Oh, and I know I am not in the best place to talk about what word is the right one to use but I am not French... I speak french but I ain't one. I am Canadian. It's not related with what ashcrbra said but some people don't seem to be able to see a difference.
Thanks

Earlam

7th July 2004, 19:28

I'm all for bilingualism! i think being able to speak two languages would be awesome! I don't mean like rite away but eventually it would be nice if canada was a bilingual country!

What are you talking about?

We are a bilingual country. That's what this debate is all about!
AARGH!

Wrigglesworth

7th July 2004, 21:42

Okay, guys and gals. I don't know about you, but if you were to pay attention in social studies, you would learn that Canada's two (read it two) offical languages are french and english. Another bit of history for ya. Trudeau did it so Quebec wouldn't seperate and mess up our beatiful homeland.

M.Griffith

7th July 2004, 22:47

i kinda agree with ashcrbra. one language would make things a lot easer i think. and as for ******* off qubec and them seperating, i say c'ya and have a nice country. But then i would also support the west seperating from canada as well. i think we could do a lot better with out the east and there domination of canada.

TiffanyAbbott

8th July 2004, 04:25

What are you talking about?

We are a bilingual country. That's what this debate is all about!
AARGH!
what am i talking about ... we have ONE bilingual province not the WHOLE country.... French and english are our main languages but not everyone can speak both well.... i can speak english but i can't speak french, what i meant was that it would be nice if the majority of canadians were able to speak both.

wb256

8th July 2004, 07:27

what am i talking about ... we have ONE bilingual province not the WHOLE country.... French and english are our main languages but not everyone can speak both well.... i can speak english but i can't speak french, what i meant was that it would be nice if the majority of canadians were able to speak both.

That's not bilingualism. I think you've neglected to read this entire thread.

Bilingualism means (please keep reading) that the federal government operates in both french and english.

I don't see how this is a "hassel" for any english speaking canadians. It just makes it so the French don't have a HUGE economic and political disadvantage.

I believe that people who have lived here BEFORE this country became canada have a right to practice their culture here. This includes French Canadians and Native Americans. (this dosn't mean that immigrants must adopt our national culture, I just don't think the government should have to bend over backwards for them, they can at least learn one of our languages).

I don't agree with the "speak english or die!" mentality that's going through our world today.

You people who say that we should all just speak english don't really realize what cultural homogenity will do to us. Why should we all have to act alike? Giving up French is one HUGE step towards giving up everything and going the way of american pop-culture, something that I wish English canada hadn't done so readily.

ashcrbra

8th July 2004, 12:24

Well I'm sorry for stating my opinion. But I'm gonna do it again.

The French population should just be happy to be around let alone make our country bilingual and have us give them everything they want. When the French were taken over by the English a few hundred years ago they were lucky they didn't get exiled or shot. So the predominantly English Western population is being inconvenienced by having to learn French so that we can function with a miniority.

Thats my opinion sorry for stating it.

ashcrbra

8th July 2004, 13:00

We're all entitle to our opinions but I think you've taken it a little to far by bashing other people's opinions by calling their opinions ignorant and stupid. I'm just trying to state my opinion but I'm being told that my opinion is "stupid", "lame", and "ignorant". So I suggest you treat people's opinions with a little more respect.

N. McKay

8th July 2004, 17:00

The French population should just be happy to be around let alone make our country bilingual and have us give them everything they want.

What's all this "us", Flight Sergent? You're talking about things that happened decades before any of "us" were born. (And don't let's forget that it's their country too.)

When the French were taken over by the English a few hundred years ago they were lucky they didn't get exiled or shot.

Quite a few of them were, actually. Ever heard of Cajuns?

So the predominantly English Western population is being inconvenienced by having to learn French so that we can function with a miniority.

No-one has to learn French, but quite a few people make the decision to enrich their lives by doing so, and are, to the last one, glad they did.

BMaloney

8th July 2004, 17:58

Someone said that bilingualism is a hassle.

Would anyone care to explain how that is? Last I checked, the signs to the washrooms were in english too.

M.Griffith

8th July 2004, 21:54

The French population should just be happy to be around let alone make our country bilingual and have us give them everything they want. When the French were taken over by the English a few hundred years ago they were lucky they didn't get exiled or shot.

i agree. yes the english did deport many of them (as someone said) but they were mainly from atlantic canada, few qubecer's were deported. in a way i am supprised that the french in canada were left. after all look at the English treatment of the scotish, welsh, and irish. there languages were banned even in the 40's people were imprisoned and school children were disaplined for speaking there language. they were no longer allowed to practice there custom's. there lands were taken from them and they were forced to move from said lands. there culture and identity were stipped from them. the english even created the "first night" law. no it is not a hollywood creation it really did excist. the english lord had sexual realations with the bride on the night of her marrage. it was hopped that it being her first time that it would increase the chances that the lord would get her pregnant thus the first born would be english and not scotish. the english tryed to bread the scotish out of scotland.

most of this also sound like what they did to the natives in canada as well. took there lands put them on reserves and such.

So the predominantly English Western population is being inconvenienced by having to learn French so that we can function with a miniority.

that is very true. in my school district it is; or was manditory for all grade 4 to 6 students to take french. to me that is an inconvenience, i did not want to learn french but i was forced to take it beacuse it was that or fail. why should i be forced to learn a language spoken by a minority on the other side of the county.

M.Griffith

8th July 2004, 22:08

That was just plain stupid. Compare our economy to yours. The east doesnt dominate anything. Seen the news within the past 100 years or so? Apparently not.

out here when we refer to the east we mainly mean ontario/ qubec, ottowa, toronto. they act like they are the centre of canada and they are so great but most of there wealth and power is built on the resorses of the west (alberta, B.C., sask)

ya that is true. you guys in the atlantic are poor and jobless but that is in part of the problem. everybody pays the feds in ottowa a percentage of what they earn. the west pays 40% of what ottowa gets but the feds then give us back only 20%. the diffrence goes mainly to qubec and the atlantic provinces. you get more money back from the feds than you pay'd them. you have a disaster and you get money and military enginers to help. but when it comes to the west we get very little in the way of support from the feds.

Coriel

9th July 2004, 13:16

What do you think about knowing two differnet languages. I've been in french immersion ever since I was 5 years old and I believe that knowing both French and English benefits my life because it allows me to talk to people who speak no english. I think knowing 2 languages is a good thing and that it should be keeped. Even though some people think that it is only important to know only one language. What is your opinons on Bilingualism?

yah, i was in french immersion for 11 years and i'm really glad i was. it has helped me in getting employers to notice me for jobs and help people out when they dont know any english. i think Canada should be bilingual.

Feeloo

9th July 2004, 23:30

i agree. yes the english did deport many of them (as someone said) but they were mainly from atlantic canada, few qubecer's were deported. in a way i am supprised that the french in canada were left. after all look at the English treatment of the scotish, welsh, and irish. there languages were banned even in the 40's people were imprisoned and school children were disaplined for speaking there language. they were no longer allowed to practice there custom's. there lands were taken from them and they were forced to move from said lands. there culture and identity were stipped from them. the english even created the "first night" law. no it is not a hollywood creation it really did excist. the english lord had sexual realations with the bride on the night of her marrage. it was hopped that it being her first time that it would increase the chances that the lord would get her pregnant thus the first born would be english and not scotish. the english tryed to bread the scotish out of scotland.

most of this also sound like what they did to the natives in canada as well. took there lands put them on reserves and such.

that is very true. in my school district it is; or was manditory for all grade 4 to 6 students to take french. to me that is an inconvenience, i did not want to learn french but i was forced to take it beacuse it was that or fail. why should i be forced to learn a language spoken by a minority on the other side of the county.

Aw!

Why did the British treat French the way they did? Look South of the border. In 1760, French outnumbered British, they didn't want them to side with the revolutionary Americans.

And for the "I am being FORCED to learn a language", well I'm sorry for you, I really am. We should all stick to our own language, and not learn any other language. French in Quebec have to learn english from grade 3 all the way to Cegep (let's call it first year of university). Ever wonder why you could have that kind of conversation with French-speaking Canadians? That's because they learn "North America's language".

There is a sarcasm mark, no? I forgot what it is...I'm sure you can figure out the sarcastic part though.

Dick

10th July 2004, 07:04

There is a sarcasm mark, no? I forgot what it is...I'm sure you can figure out the sarcastic part though.
{!}

I can't believe people are complaining about having to take french in elementry... Did you want to learn math too? Probably not, so that's a hassle too, and should be removed and replaced with pimpology 101. I mean come on, school is school, no one enjoys learning stuff!! Except for a 1337 few.

As for the whole argument about how they were treated in the past and they should be lucky to be here. Give it up. That's crap, were not living in the past. They have just as much right to be here as anyone else in Canada.

Sarah209

10th July 2004, 15:07

okay..everyone we should forgive the people who think it's a hassle, they just haven't given french a second look, never experienced it so really...they can't say anything about it... and, they haven't seen any advantages there is to knowing two languages! anyway, to you guys who think it's a hassle, you guys have no rite, I'm english, I don't say stuff like that, I enjoy learning french!...
Okay, it's ur opinion, but when you state ur opinion u don't have to be the way you are, hmmm give things a second look, see the two parts of the story... i bet you are the same ppl who want Quebec to seperate from Canada...oh my, I can see it now, Canada...nice and big..with a whole right in the center of it..for those "french people" what a way to seperate atlantic canada, but that's probally what u main-landers would like hmmmph

The Blue Tory

10th July 2004, 15:52

Feeloo

10th July 2004, 15:59

Signs in Quebec have to have French on it, and it has to be twice bigger than the other languages.

And please, PLEASE, comments like English isn't given any grace in Quebec... did you even experiment it? English has a huge place in Quebec. You can live here all your life without knowing a single word of French. Again, hospitals, community centers, schools, all the simple basis for linguistic communities are implemented here and have been implemented here for decades.

The Blue Tory

10th July 2004, 16:20

I am basing it only on my experiences from my trip to Montreal and what I've seen on the media...

If that is not the case, then so be it, I'm wrong then...

Anyway, if Canada should be bilingual moreso all over, then a province shouldn't have one language twice as large as other languages on signs, similarily to how, in other provinces, signs should not only have one official language on it...

If both official languages aren't on the same level across the whole country, why do we even have "official languages"?

Dick

10th July 2004, 18:07

okay..
OMG your from Dildo!!!!!

*im not worthy*

Thib

10th July 2004, 18:44

I am basing it only on my experiences from my trip to Montreal and what I've seen on the media...

And the media is the best way to form an idea about the culture...

Anyway, if Canada should be bilingual moreso all over, then a province shouldn't have one language twice as large as other languages on signs, similarily to how, in other provinces, signs should not only have one official language on it...

But at least we have both language on sign... Wich can't be said about other part of Canada where sign wich belong to the federal governement are only in english (and sometime other language then french).

The Blue Tory

10th July 2004, 19:14

OMG your from Dildo!!!!!

*im not worthy*
wow your serious!!!

I thought you were just being your joking sarcastic self, then I realized there was actually a place called that...

Trombonist

10th July 2004, 23:26

I live in Alberta, and having Alberta bilangual would be plain stuiped.
There is no sence of having it, majority of us are Angolophones and have to alter our life style for French who mainly live in Quebec and New Brunswick (we are allready mad at central Canada). If equal number French comes to Alberta I can accept it.

N. McKay

11th July 2004, 05:24

There is no sence of having it, majority of us are Angolophones and have to alter our life style for French who mainly live in Quebec and New Brunswick

How has your lifestyle been altered?

Ching

11th July 2004, 08:45

*Haven't read rest of thread*

Anyway with that stated...

How can the French people expect the rest of English Canada to speak and print things in French as well in predominantly English parts, when in Quebec, English isn't given any grace, as I believe there is a law or something of the sorts that states signs must only be in French (someone from Quebec please reaffirm?).

Unless Quebec is treated as a bilingual province, the rest of Canada should not be expected to be bilingual
When was the last time you were in Quebec? I have NEVER encountered a Quebecois who didn't speak any English and wasn't happy to do so. Conversely, I have heard no end of whining because the barracks I was assigned to with a few other staff cadets is predominantly Francophone. No effort on many people's parts to communicate in French. It's quite the double standard.
Minority or not, Canada is a bilingual country, and French is our other official language. Deal with it.

Ching

11th July 2004, 08:48

How has your lifestyle been altered?
Mine's been altered by meeting many new people, learning a new language, and generally having a lot of fun. Oh, and not feeling prejudiced against an entire group of Canadian citizens simply because they speak a different language than I do. Not that I ever did. My parents made sure of that.

Trombonist

11th July 2004, 11:35

How has your lifestyle been altered?

Having to learn another language which does not represent our culture
to well.

Isn't Quebecs language French ? Because then, they arn't Bilangual.

jgoguen

11th July 2004, 13:33

When was the last time you were in Quebec? I have NEVER encountered a Quebecois who didn't speak any English and wasn't happy to do so. No effort on many people's parts to communicate in French. I was there for the better part of the 2002/2003 academic year, and I found many, many Francophones unwilling or unable to communicate in English. At the same time, most of the Anglophones I was with made as little effort as possible to communicate in French unless they had to, so it's certainly not a one-sided thing

Isn't Quebecs language French ? Because then, they arn't Bilangual. Actually, if you look, New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in Canada. So does that mean Ontario isn't bilingual? Or Nova Scotia?

N. McKay

11th July 2004, 16:32

Having to learn another language which does not represent our culture
to well.

I'm sure your province's school system would only fill the time with something else you'd dislike equally. (I found it inconvenient to have to study the Spanish Inquisition, but that's school for you.)

For reasons which are probably not obvious to you at the moment, you will eventually be glad you learned French.

N. McKay

11th July 2004, 16:35

Actually, if you look, New Brunswick is the only officially bilingual province in Canada. So does that mean Ontario isn't bilingual? Or Nova Scotia?

(Again), for a country of province to be bilingual simply means that people may interact with the government in the official language of their choice. At the moment, you have the right to interact with the federal and New Brunswick governments in either language, the Quebec government in French, and the rest in English. So while there are francophones in every province, neither Nova Scotia nor Ontario is officially bilingual.

JGallagher

11th July 2004, 16:47

Sarah209

11th July 2004, 17:32

OMG your from Dildo!!!!!

*im not worthy*

good for you :D

jgoguen

11th July 2004, 17:46

(Again), for a country of province to be bilingual simply means that people may interact with the government in the official language of their choice. At the moment, you have the right to interact with the federal and New Brunswick governments in either language, the Quebec government in French, and the rest in English. So while there are francophones in every province, neither Nova Scotia nor Ontario is officially bilingual. So does the official language(s) of the province take precedence over the official languages of Canada? I always thought government services had to be provided in the official language of your choice all across Canada:confused:

TLOD

11th July 2004, 18:30

Federal Government services are accessable to anyone in either official language, regardless of the official language status of the local Province. Provincial Government services are accessable in the offical language of the local Province. PQ residents accessing provincial services are served in French, NB residents may be served in either language.

Trombonist

11th July 2004, 22:28

I'm sure your province's school system would only fill the time with something else you'd dislike equally. (I found it inconvenient to have to study the Spanish Inquisition, but that's school for you.)

For reasons which are probably not obvious to you at the moment, you will eventually be glad you learned French.

I only have RAP and my core subjects that fill my time. :)

Canada is so multicultural, I have vast amount of languages I can learn except French.

Feeloo

11th July 2004, 22:29

You can be served in English by Quebec's provincial government, unless maybe you live in a secluded region of Quebec where there are very few anglophones.

At least in Montreal you can. According to some city counsellors, 60% of this past year executive committee meetings were conducted in English... that's how much English Montreal is now...

Trombonist

12th July 2004, 00:25

Carter

12th July 2004, 00:44

I got kicked out of french in grade 8. Because I could not pronounce french properly, let alone, I can't speak english eather ;)

Carter

12th July 2004, 00:44

From what I know of Montreal, it has always been mostly english.

They have McGill University.

Bright Eyes

12th July 2004, 02:50

I think there should be more of an effort put forward for education in the official languages in the schools. However, education being a provincial issue, I can't see it happening anytime soon.

That being said, I agree with Trombonist (to a certain degree). Learning French in Alberta would have no cultural relevance for that province. I recall a story my uncle told me. As a member of the RCMP he had to take a year and learn French. He lived with a completely French family. They knew someone was calling for him when they spoke English on the phone, they just handed it over to him. He lived there and learned French as a mandatory part of his career. Now he's stationed in Vancouver. He said the only time he ever uses that mandatory French training is when he's grocery shopping. If a can or box is turned around on the shelf, he doesn't have to reach over and flip it around to see what it says. Chinese, on the other hand, would be much more useful to him, considering the predominant population of Vancouver's cultural base.

So, being completely bilingual has advantages and disadvantages depending on where you live in Canada.

N. McKay

12th July 2004, 04:04

I actully belive that the Provance of New Brunswick is more french then english. Look at the northern part. Lets say from Miramichi right across to Edmunston. That is all french area. Even Moncton, Dieppe area. Is that not mostly french territory.

You might make an argument that the predominantly francophone region is bigger, in area, than the predominantly anglophone region, but you also have to consider the population in each region. Fredericton is mainly anglophone with a substantial francophone population, Saint John has a relatively small francophone population, and Moncton is a fairly even split. There you have the three biggest cities in the province, by far. (Miramichi is also pretty anglophone, in my experience.)

Thib

12th July 2004, 11:14

You can be served in English by Quebec's provincial government, unless maybe you live in a secluded region of Quebec where there are very few anglophones.

You are able to have all service in the english language in Québec, you just need to ask for it. Usuly on a back of an official paper it said an english version is available on demand.

Thib

12th July 2004, 11:18

I was there for the better part of the 2002/2003 academic year, and I found many, many Francophones unwilling or unable to communicate in English. At the same time, most of the Anglophones I was with made as little effort as possible to communicate in French unless they had to, so it's certainly not a one-sided thing

Your right a portion of the french population is unwilling to learn english but they are still force to do so. You need to graduate from secondary with english 5 and in Cegep you need english 101-A and 101-B to graduate (even if you are not in a pre-university programme). Also for people going to University most of them need 102 english or university will make them take and pay for an english course. And even if I was at a french speaking university I needed to hand some of my papers with english on it. (I was also evaluated on the level of the language I use in the text). So yes some people here are unwilling to learn english but they are force to.

boxerboy50

12th July 2004, 13:22

I think Canada should be "unilingual" simply because we wouldnt be ranking languages from most important to least important. For example the French culture is not as popular as some others in Canada. Yet the French language remains one of Canadas two official languages. A scenerio: "An man of Italian descent who doesn't speak or read a very much english needs to fix a plumbing problem in his house. He makes his way to a hardware store to by some materials needed for the job. He gets to the store only to find that no employee speaks Italian and that no signs or labels are in that language either. However they are in English and French. Aswell he doesn't know what products he needs to do the job, but instead he would be able to outline the problem to any employee in Italian and be further instructed on how to fix the problem." I think its unfair that a French person is obliged by law to be offered the help and service in French, simply because they were second in line to conquer this land. It should be soley the English language which is not only international, but the majority spoken in Canada. It shouldnt be a matter of second or third most spoken.

jgoguen

12th July 2004, 14:59

You need to graduate from secondary with english 5 and in Cegep you need english 101-A and 101-B to graduate (even if you are not in a pre-university programme). Also for people going to University most of them need 102 english or university will make them take and pay for an english course. Nice. I didn't know that. There sure isn't any such on the English side :( What level is required for each part you mentioned there? Does English 5 give you a basic understanding, or is it more like an intermediate level? I find it sad that Francophones have to learn English to graduate, but Anglophones can get out of university not knowing a word of French...:(

Thib

12th July 2004, 18:55

Nice. I didn't know that. There sure isn't any such on the English side :( What level is required for each part you mentioned there? Does English 5 give you a basic understanding, or is it more like an intermediate level? I find it sad that Francophones have to learn English to graduate, but Anglophones can get out of university not knowing a word of French...:(
English 5 is basic. You can also have an advance level 5 but you don't need it to graduate. From cegep when you graduate at level 102 you should be at my writting level. I can't really say what level of reading and talking that you should be because I can do both at level 103. Even if I only pass level 102 because I have probleme in my writting in english.

Here are the Cegep level:
100: Dosn't really count has a level. It's for people who are to weak in english and they need to complete both 101 course after
101: Can speak basic english
102: Have a functional english and they could work in an english environment if needed
103:Bilingual

Carter

12th July 2004, 19:46

That was absouletly ridiculous.

Not really. I think it is a vaild point. Win wars, get what you want. Lose wars, obey. There are no points for second place.

BMaloney

12th July 2004, 21:51

But remember, this is canada we're talking about. We've always been pretty bad at enforcing mean attitudes. How do you think we gained independence? By asking nicely.

N. McKay

13th July 2004, 03:16

Not really. I think it is a vaild point. Win wars, get what you want. Lose wars, obey. There are no points for second place.

I think we've moved beyond that line of thinking over the last hundred years.

sailrox

14th July 2004, 16:31

Okay I'll admit I just skimmed over most of the pages in ehre, cause net time here in south africa is ridiculously expensive.
But I'm going to throw my two cents in (and btw i'm totally bilingual and used to live in France)

Why French? If we're going to be bilingual in something, why french? YOu can say history, cause let's face it, we've eliminated many old, historically significant languages with no look back. And population is hard to argue because they are fast being overtaken by other major minority groups.

To me, the gov't's bilingualism policy doesn't make sense. Why should a govt official in a totqally non-french speaking part of Canada be forced to speak both languages? Wouldn't it be mor eproductive, useful, and efficient to have them multi-lingual or bilingual in the predominant languages of the area? And maybe have it mandatory that minimum one person per dept speak both french and english?

Just from a South AFrican perspective, they have THIRTEEN official languages here. 13! Do you think every govt official speaks thirteen different languages? ARe you nuts? BUt the officials in KwaZulu Natal will speak at LEAST English, Zulu and AFrikaans, the ones in the NOrth Eastern Province, English and Tswana, the ones in the north, Afrikaans, English and whatever other African language. And they can find soemone to translate if tehre's a statistical anomaly of a person who wants another, or a tourist from another area.

The scariest thing? It works. None of this "assimilation" argument, or "2 nations". It's one nation, lots of languages. They may have a lot of problems here, but this ain't one of em!

boxerboy50

14th July 2004, 18:06

That was absouletly ridiculous.
Ok you say it was ridiculous...Then why don't we support our ignorance with some prespectives we stand firm by? Oh sorry I forgot, it was ignorance. No elaboration needed.

Thib

14th July 2004, 18:44

Why French? If we're going to be bilingual in something, why french? YOu can say history, cause let's face it, we've eliminated many old, historically significant languages with no look back. !
In the pass (yes I know it's history) The British made a pack with their french speaking subject. The gave the french langauge the right to exist in what is now known has Canada in exchange of our loyalty to the crown. It might be history but a deal is a deal.

To me, the gov't's bilingualism policy doesn't make sense. Why should a govt official in a totqally non-french speaking part of Canada be forced to speak both languages? Wouldn't it be mor eproductive, useful, and efficient to have them multi-lingual or bilingual in the predominant languages of the area? And maybe have it mandatory that minimum one person per dept speak both french and english?!
He isn't force to learn french, the service need to be offer in french. And trust me not all federal employe speak both official languages.

The scariest thing? It works. None of this "assimilation" argument, or "2 nations". It's one nation, lots of languages. They may have a lot of problems here, but this ain't one of em!
You forget the fact that until the 50-60 they where colonies and most of their culture had change and they assimilated part of the European one. Also the case of Africa isn't a bit more complicated then the way you show it.

Thib

14th July 2004, 18:48

Not really. I think it is a vaild point. Win wars, get what you want. Lose wars, obey. There are no points for second place.

Like I just said read the treaties that where sign and understand why. The loyalty of the french speaking population was baught. And guess what was the price?

Also this argument forget that an unhappy population might revolt agains their head of state.

boxerboy50

14th July 2004, 19:15

Well if its because of a treaty why the French language is official in Canada, then let it stay. That I was unaware of. Thanks for the enlightenment. However, if this existence of the language in Canada wasn't dependent on a previously made agreement, it has no place here as an official language. English is an international language and everyone is treated fairly if that is the only official language used.

Carter

14th July 2004, 19:39

I think we've moved beyond that line of thinking over the last hundred years.

If we did, you will not be a Sublieutenant. Or I would not be a sergeant.

M.Griffith

14th July 2004, 20:10

i was and still am proenglish in canada but i must admit that the profrench have made some good points.

in the west it has caused some problems and disagreements having french, as we are an english community out here. the british traditionaly have subjugated there defeated foes. but in canada they bought there loyalty by alowing french to remain. a few hundred years a go it may not have been a problem but in the nation now it is creating a problem. it is causeing a cultural rift between the two, the reason other cultures (eg german, chines) are not a problem is beacuse they are not protected and are expected to assimilate and do so. the french hide behind there right to be french.

but even then they are not compleatly loyal to the brit's. in the two wars they along with the english were conscripted in the canadian military. 90% of the english volintered for overseas service but only 10-20% of the french volintered and when asked why they claimed it was britains war not there's. yet was not britain fighting to protect/liberate france, there home country. to me that shows no loyalty to either britain or france.

N. McKay

15th July 2004, 03:12

yet was not britain fighting to protect/liberate france, there home country. to me that shows no loyalty to either britain or france.

I doubt that the majority of Quebecers consider Franch (or the UK) to be their home country. I would hope they think of Canada as their home country.

If we did, you will not be a Sublieutenant. Or I would not be a sergeant.

I'm not suggesting that we don't still fight wars, or require armed forces for other purposes. But no-one's still playing the old game of going around the world, conquering territory, and adding it to its empire.

offguard96

15th July 2004, 05:59

I was born in Switzerland...as far as I know, the official languages of the government there are French, German, Italian, and Romansch. My Swiss birth certificate is printed in seven languages, including English.

The reason for it to have been printed is simple: If you refuse to learn, you might as well refuse to work, to discuss, or to travel. Most of Europe realized long ago that in order to do anything in today's world, you have to be able to communicate in more than one language.

As for the Air Canada pilots...boo hoo hoo. In order to fly any airline, you have to speak English. What that means is that a Chinese person who wishes to become an airline pilot has to learn English. So does a German, French, Spanish, Russian, or Indian person. You're given the option of free schooling in French, while speaking English as a native language, and you complain?

Anyway, to summate: Bilingualism's good for our brains. Being crotchety and loyal to one language only is bad.

boxerboy50

15th July 2004, 09:10

Well, both sides of the debate have made some very strong points. However, I believe that the unilingual side has made points that simply outweigh that of the opposition. In any case, I stand strong to my beliefs and in a non-ignorant kind of way, shouldn't have been bothered in the first place to be subject to this debate. So with that, I leave this room. Keep exercising the minds. ;)

Thib

15th July 2004, 15:22

it has no place here as an official language.

Then Quebec might have no place in Canada if we follow that ligne of thinking.

boxerboy50

15th July 2004, 20:03

jgoguen

15th July 2004, 20:15

BMaloney

15th July 2004, 21:42

I fail how to see bilingualism affects any of you nay-sayers lives. How is it causing you discomfort? Having to turn the pop can around to see the flavour? If the price of bilingualism is too high, you've got your financial priorities in a mix.

Carter

16th July 2004, 01:22

Then Quebec might have no place in Canada if we follow that ligne of thinking.

You guys want to seperate from us?

N. McKay

16th July 2004, 03:13

Let there be a French province, but get rid of the French language...hmm...if you get rid of the language, you can't exactly have a province officially using that language now, can you ;)

I don't think everyone here fully understands the link between language and culture.

Thib

16th July 2004, 03:17

Ummmmmmm NO! Perfect display of absolutely no intellectual capabilities. I said the language should be disregarded as an official language, not a province -which is made up than more than just French people. I'm sure Quebec has at least one person who doesn't speak French. I'm sure they have some non-French people. African-Americans, Natives, and some Asians TOO! Quebec isn't a completely French province by fact, thus me saying get rid of the French language would not mean nor imply the abolishment of the province of Quebec but instead JUST GETTING RID OF THE DAMN LANGUAGE :eek:

Hmmm, the majority of people in Quebec speak french and even the people who supposrt the NO side would vote for the YES in the next referendum if a governement start to refuse french has an official language. And for your information if all branch of the french speaking population in Quebec support the YES don't worry you will get your 60% in favore of seperation.

The fact that some people can't see the difference between the language, national unity for Quebec show that they don't know the situation in Quebec correcly.

jgoguen

16th July 2004, 05:05

I don't think everyone here fully understands the link between language and culture. I'm focusing totally on language here. I lived in Quebec for a year, and I think I got a decent view of how language and culture are different there. That, and I was in Scotland and England and France, so I got to see some different cultures speaking the same languages I'm used to hearing. Also, I think I may not have been clear that I was focusing on languages and not cultures:

if you get rid of the language, you can't exactly have a province officially using that language now, can you I draw your attention to the bolded part. In the future I'll make it clear if I'm talking about languages only or not.

N. McKay

16th July 2004, 05:34

I'm focusing totally on language here. I lived in Quebec for a year, and I think I got a decent view of how language and culture are different there. That, and I was in Scotland and England and France, so I got to see some different cultures speaking the same languages I'm used to hearing. Also, I think I may not have been clear that I was focusing on languages and not cultures:
I draw your attention to the bolded part. In the future I'll make it clear if I'm talking about languages only or not.

I got that; I was thinking more of the post you were replying to.

To clarify, for those not familiar with the issue, language and culture are very closely linked -- get rid of the French language in Canada, and you'll wipe out an entire culture, one that's shared by more than a quarter of the population. Thjere's a lot more to it than simply what language you're speaking.

boxerboy50

16th July 2004, 10:38

Hmm...get rid of the French language...well why stop there? Let's go on and get rid of the Chineese language...and how about German too...oh wait, Gaelic too...and while we're at it, why not stop in and eradicate the Polish language...and Afrikkans too...
Let there be a French province, but get rid of the French language...hmm?

Ok. Qubec is not a French province. By law it would be a Canadian province. Yes it is a prodominately French SPEAKING province, however it is not governed by the French gov't and furthermore is not a French province. That is a small detail in law that if often overlooked. That technicality alone would allow for the eradication of the French language as an official language in Canada. No where did I ever say that no one should be allowed to speak French, or for that matter, any other language they choose. They can do so if they want. Its just that the only official language in Canada would be English. I.e. You only get gov't documents in English, labels only come in English, and services are only provided in English. Now with that no one would be treated in anyway unfairly. The French man wouldn't receive any better service than the Italian man. (Ref. third last post by BOXERBOY50) Now please argue this! :)

Carter

16th July 2004, 22:41

I've read up along time ago the offical dictionary of Canada is the Oxford dictionary. However I could not find the French dictionary.

jgoguen

17th July 2004, 04:51

Now please argue this! With pleasure :D

Ok. Qubec is not a French province. By law it would be a Canadian province. So you can't be a French Canadian?

Yes it is a prodominately French SPEAKING province But you just said it's not a French province, it's a Canadian one. And what language does a Canadian speak anyway...do they speak Canadianese or something like that ;)

however it is not governed by the French gov't and furthermore is not a French province. Well now, nationality is a far way from language. I'll give you that, Quebec most certainly is not a province of France, however they most definately are a French province. If you have any doubt of that, go to Quebec City, or Valcartier, or Laval, or Trois-Rivieres and see what language they normally speak in.

That is a small detail in law that if often overlooked. I would suggest you worry about paying attention to details here, such as what I'm talking about, before you worry about the details of the law.

That technicality alone would allow for the eradication of the French language as an official language in Canada. Well since you're not working off the right details here, your "technicality" needs new justification. That and I really don't see how Quebec not being a province of France means Canada shouldn't have French as an official language. Have you ever actually tried to speak French to someone from France after learning it here? It's almost like a different language...so many terms and phrases we use every day here that they recognize as being French their grandparents saw as old French :eek:

Its just that the only official language in Canada would be English. I.e. You only get gov't documents in English, labels only come in English, and services are only provided in English. Now with that no one would be treated in anyway unfairly. The French man wouldn't receive any better service than the Italian man. No, but the English man sure gets it a lot better than either of them. Way to go fair treatment...as long as you get it better than anyone else, it's fair, eh :rolleyes: If I go to Switzerland, and I want to be served in Romansh, I expect to get service in Romansh just about everywhere. However, I expect no service in English anywhere, because it's not an official language. If I get it, that's great, but I won't expect it. It has nothing to do with me as an English person not being treated fairly, it's just that English is not an official language of Switzerland.

English is an international language and everyone is treated fairly if that is the only official language used International language? So English would be the language of choice for multi-national conferences then, right? Well then please, do explain why a Chemistry professor of mine in first year chem went to a conference in Europe, where the only languages used were French, Italian, and Russian. The main conference was given in French. There were plenty of people speaking English amonsgt themselves whenever they were between presentations, but at no point was English ever used to present anything. Some international language, even Europe prefers French ;) Then again, it seems to me Europe in general has long ago realized that to get things done better on an international scale, you need to know more than just English...

big_castor

17th July 2004, 05:18

That technicality alone would allow for the eradication of the French language as an official language in Canada.

Its just that the only official language in Canada would be English. I.e. You only get gov't documents in English, labels only come in English, and services are only provided in English. Now with that no one would be treated in anyway unfairly. The French man wouldn't receive any better service than the Italian man. (Ref. third last post by BOXERBOY50) Now please argue this! :)

You cannot honestly compare the situation of French speaking Canadians (whether they live in Quebec or in other provinces) with that of an immigrant of any nationality.

If you live in Italy and decide to immigrate to Canada, you should be fully aware of the fact that Canada has two official languages and that you are expected to learn at least one of those to be fully functional in Canadian society. You children will go to school in English of French and you will be expected to interact with government in English or French.

My family, on the other hand, has been living here for over 300 years. We where here BEFORE the British and we never chose to be dominated by the British : we where conquered by force. You can make any comparison you want with what happened to the Welsh or the Scots but the fact is that for more then 250 year we continued to speak French, maintain our distinct culture and traditions despite the efforts of the British or Canadian Government. And they tried very hard to make us "British" or "English". Ever read Lord Durham's Report ? Québécois and French speaking Canadians fought to defend this country not because they where attached to the French or British Crown or Canada but because it's OUR HOMELAND. We called ourselves "Canadiens" well before English speaking Canadians did.

Québec got into Confederation thinking it would be a pact between to nations, that the French and English "races" would be on equal terms. It never happened: the rights of French speaking minorities elsewhere in Canada where never respected., no matter how hard we have been trying very hard to make this "bi-national" state work. Did you know the Jean Chrétien was the first French speaking Minister of Finances of Canada ? A hundred years after Confederation, the finally trusted a frog enough to give him that job !

There are a lot of French speaking countries around to world : should they switch to English because they are no longer French colonies ? You say that a "one language only policy" would be fair. Fairness is also respecting cultural and linguistic minorities and on of the largest minority in Canada are the Francophones. I don’t expect every civil servant West of the Ottawa River to be fully fluent in French and it's not about cereal boxes and Government forms : I just want some recognition of the contribution that my family and all the French speaking Canadians made for this country. But as long as my language and culture are treated like an annoyance, I will continue to feel more like a Québécois then a Canadian.

JGallagher

17th July 2004, 07:26

Are you one of those "I am Acadians" hardcore?

N. McKay

17th July 2004, 08:15

I've read up along time ago the offical dictionary of Canada is the Oxford dictionary. However I could not find the French dictionary.

Official according to whom? (Certainly, the Canadian Oxford Dictionary is the best dictionary of Canadian English you're going to find.)

N. McKay

17th July 2004, 08:20

Well now, nationality is a far way from language. I'll give you that, Quebec most certainly is not a province of France, however they most definately are a French province. If you have any doubt of that, go to Quebec City, or Valcartier, or Laval, or Trois-Rivieres and see what language they normally speak in.

That's why we have great terms like francophone and French-speaking. Quebec isn't French, in the sense of being from or part of France, but it's predominantly French-speaking.

boxerboy50

17th July 2004, 16:00

Theres a huge difference between a province being a French province, which would mean it is governed by the French gov't and it being a prodominately French speaking. Note the word "prodominately" because i'm sure theres some messed up case of someone living there who doesn't speak French. Just because there is no French province in Canada, doesn't mean there can be no French-Canadians :) Am I not a Jamaican-Canadian simply because there is no province in Canada governed by Jamaica. The answer is no. I am still a Jamaican-Canadian none the less.Your claim is saying the exact opposite of that. Instead you are saying that in order to be a "insert nationality here" Canadian your nationality needs to have a province in Canada. You may have not realized that, but according to the English language, thats exactly what you said. Now as to whether or not your comprehension of the English language differs, thats another issue.

grass_roots

17th July 2004, 16:51

sorry bud your way off the mark

The vast majority of those who reside in Quebec are Quebecois, francaphones who speak a language and live within a cultural group native to and founded in Quebec, it is thier HOME LAND. Don't try to compare Quebecois with other minorities, it just don't match up.

I as an anglaphone Canadian with a francaphone heritage would fully support the idea of Quebec soverignty if we were to lose our bilingual status.

Just a side note, it's possible this has already been mentioned:

Francaphone communities are present in EVERY province and territory of Canada, most of which were founded by francaphones and predate confederation.

I am a Canadian, et je suis fier d'etre Canadiene, l'anglais ET la francais c'est la histoire de mon pays, and it's the only logical foundation for our future.

big_castor

18th July 2004, 06:45

because i'm sure theres some messed up case of someone living there who doesn't speak French.

Obviously you have no idea of the cultural and linguistic make-up of Quebec. Francophones are the majority in Quebec. There is a large minority of Anglophones and Allophones. The official language in Quebec is French because it's the language of the majority and the historical language of the Province.

Instead you are saying that in order to be a "insert nationality here" Canadian your nationality needs to have a province in Canada

I could call myself a Martian-Canadian if I felt like it : it's not about the name, it's about recognizing our rights, our culture an our language and our historic contribution, not just in Quebec, but across Canada.

Now as to whether or not your comprehension of the English language differs, thats another issue.

I think I'm doing just fine thank you....

jgoguen

18th July 2004, 10:32

Now as to whether or not your comprehension of the English language differs, thats another issue. You know...it seems to me a lot of us are talking about language and culture, and you're going somewhere else. Maybe you should understand what we're saying before you suggest we don't understand English. Mais, si vous préferé, c'est possible de faire le conversation en Francais. C'est une langue vraiment bonne :)

M.Griffith

18th July 2004, 13:23

that each province's francophone communities even have developed a flag

well to me this supports the belief that french speaking canadians do not want to be a part of canada.

I as an anglaphone Canadian with a francaphone heritage would fully support the idea of Quebec soverignty if we were to lose our bilingual status.

well all of my heritage is of a blood thirsty nature. Germans, Scots, Viking (and a few not so bloody) they have a reputation for splitting skulls and killing people, but you do not see me going around commiting mass murder and then saying 'it is my history that made me do it'. also heritage was one of the reasons that hitler used to justify his conquest of europe, the aryan race.

and i have a question to the qubecer's, are your provincial government services availible in english for the english population you say there is???

besides are we not all CANADIAN? not french-canadian, british-canadian, jamacian-canadian, or chines-canadian. history should be of no importance in canada, as we are all canadian, and you french keep hidding behind history to justify your actions.

jgoguen

18th July 2004, 13:26

and i have a question to the qubecer's, are your provincial government services availible in english for the english population you say there is??? Well, I know when I was in Quebec, I had no trouble getting government services in English. Pretty darn good English too...had a hard time believing one guy was actually French by first language :D A lot of the people didn't like to speak English, some refused to, but the governmental types were real nice about it.

big_castor

18th July 2004, 14:09

well to me this supports the belief that french speaking canadians do not want to be a part of canada.

Maybe because nothing is being done to make them feel more attached to Canada ? French speaking minorities outside of Quebec are being assimilated into the English speaking majority. They probably would like to remain Canadians but at the same time they are afraid of losing their identity – it's normal for them to foster that sense of belonging with associations, symbols, etc…

well all of my heritage is of a blood thirsty nature. Germans, Scots, Viking (and a few not so bloody) they have a reputation for splitting skulls and killing people, but you do not see me going around commiting mass murder and then saying 'it is my history that made me do it'.

What kind of argument is that ? Nobody in Canada is using cultural heritage to justify illegal actions or genocide ! The only argument is that there is a specific and distinct Fench-Canadian and Québécois culture and it should be protected and accepted. How can you honestly compare that with the Nazis ? Where are not trying to obliterate another culture, only to protect our own, within our own national territory.

history should be of no importance in canada, (…)we are all canadian,

History is the only thing that can create a sense of national unity. If you want to start creating a real Canadian sense of identity and belonging, you must have a common history and common "founding myths". The Québecois have theirs. Should we obliterate any reference to any other culture except the "Canadian" one ? That would leave very little. Your Scottish and Germans ancestors have made significant contributions to the culture of the New World : should that be forgotten ?

and you french keep hidding behind history to justify your actions.

What actions ? Nationalism ? Separatism ? Yes, these idea are based on historical and cultural considerations but is there anything wrong with them ?

boxerboy50

18th July 2004, 17:43

Well again I will try to stay out of this thread, but before I leave let me say screw the French. They are not anymore important than any other Canadian, therefore there language should not be acknowledged as an official language but instead because we're all Canadians, the only official language needed is the Canadian variant of English. In fact, the second biggest nationality and language spoken in Canada is not French. Do your research go to: http://www.statcan.ca/

N. McKay

18th July 2004, 18:14

Well again I will try to stay out of this thread, but before I leave let me say screw the French.

That's not very professional, Flght Sergeant.

In fact, the second biggest nationality and language spoken in Canada is not French. Do your research go to: http://www.statcan.ca/

By my reading of the table at http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo18a.htm, 6.7 million people (roughly 23 per cent of Canadians) reported their mother tongue as French, while the number reporting any non-official language as their mother tongue was 5.2 million, so it looks to me that francophones outnumber native speakers of every other language (stand fast English) put together.

Which language did you think it was?

N. McKay

18th July 2004, 18:18

well to me this supports the belief that french speaking canadians do not want to be a part of canada.

I can't agree with that. Any number of groups and organisations have their own flags, not the least of which are the Forces and the CCM.

Ching

18th July 2004, 18:45

Well, I know when I was in Quebec, I had no trouble getting government services in English. Pretty darn good English too...had a hard time believing one guy was actually French by first language :D A lot of the people didn't like to speak English, some refused to, but the governmental types were real nice about it.
And the other thing is... most of those people are perfectly capable of speaking English, and are offended by the Anglo-Canadians' seeming collective refusal of French. How can you reject a language, honestly? I think it would be far more worthwhile to protest peas. Peas taste gross. French is a beautiful language. Therefore, French is worthwhile and peas are not.
I'm absolutely astounded at some of the attitudes presented here. "Screw the French"? Why, because they want to be able to get government services in their own language across the country, just as the English can.
Who gives a... poo... if it's not spoken by the majority? It's part of our heritage, like it or not. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with being bilingual. I wish I were.

jgoguen

18th July 2004, 20:14

They are not anymore important than any other Canadian No, they're only nearly a quarter of the population of Canada...not important at all...:rolleyes:

therefore there language should not be acknowledged as an official language but instead because we're all Canadians, the only official language needed is the Canadian variant of English. So does that make Canadians speaking the Canadian variation of English more important than the other Canadians? I mean, if the French are no more important that any other Canadian, and that means they can't have their language recognized as official, then what makes the English Canadians so much more special? Either that or we just have no official languages...

In fact, the second biggest nationality and language spoken in Canada is not French. Do your research go to: http://www.statcan.ca/ Alright...I will...my research shows that as of the compilation of the 2001 national census, there are:

17,352,315 Canadians identifying English as their mother tongue

6,703,325 Canadians identifying French as their mother tongue

5,202,245 Canadians identifying some other non-official language as their mother tongue

112,575 Canadians said English and French

219,860 Canadians said English and some other non-official language

38,630 Canadians said French and some other non-official language

10,085 Canadians said English, French, and some other non-official language

Now, based on the reported population of 29,639,035 people, here's those numbers as percentages of total population:

58.55% of Canadians identified English as their mother tongue

22.62% of Canadians identified French as their mother tongue

17.55% of Canadians identified some other non-official language as their mother tongue

0.38% of Canadians said English and French

0.74% of Canadians said English and some other non-official language

0.13% of Canadians said French and some other non-official language

0.03% of Canadians said English, French, and some other non-official language

My reference is Statistics Canada, specifically the 'Population by mother tongue, provines and territories' table located at http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/demo18a.htm, which gives statistics accurate as of 2001.

So there you have it. The second-largest nationality and language spoken in Canada is French. Perhaps you should actually look through a site before you post it as proof of your argument ;)

boxerboy50

18th July 2004, 20:33

OK. Yea LOL. I lied about the Stats. I didn't actually think you'd check simply because I over compensated for the lie by placing the website. But whatever. :D

jgoguen

19th July 2004, 03:09

OK. Yea LOL. I lied about the Stats. I didn't actually think you'd check simply because I over compensated for the lie by placing the website. But whatever. :D
And now you expect anyone to ever take you seriously again? Hoe does anyone know you aren't lying about everything else you say? I sincerely hope your staff gets informed about this and removes you from any leadership position you may be in. A leader can't lie; your people have to know they can trust you, and they can't trust you if you lie to try to make yourself look good. I can't tell you how disappointed I am that a Flight Sergeant would so openly admit to blatently lying and be so uncaring about it. I wold have hoped that you would know better.

N. McKay

19th July 2004, 03:39

OK. Yea LOL. I lied about the Stats. I didn't actually think you'd check simply because I over compensated for the lie by placing the website. But whatever. :D

Between that and the PM you sent me, I dare say you've pretty well indicated how seriously, or not, I should take you from here on in.

gunzgirl85

19th July 2004, 05:38

well heres my bit.

Me for one thing, i am so tired of hearing about Quebec!
Most ppl in Quebec don't even know that they are not the only french ppl in the country! I live in New Brunswick, where we have a lot of french ppl. We have a french university with medical/radiology programs, a french hospital, a french school district and french high schools, radio stations, you name it.
We have cafes that rather serve you in french, all our signs are billingual (lettering about the same size in both languages, except french words are mostly longer so it looks smaller to fit it all in)...
So why shouldn't french be adopted by canada?
this is the first notion that i ever heard that it wasn't. Cause over here NB is bilingual, and Quebec is french...so if a few provinces are bilingual wouldn't you think it was official yet?

and we should have way more languages in school...some ppl only know one, and thats really bad. Ive been working on german for a year, and some spanish in highschool..so maybe one day ill know 4 languages fluently. :D

boxerboy50

19th July 2004, 09:47

LOL You know what an officer once said to me, "You can lie, just don't get caught." Let me say this, Good leaders will know more than whats in print in a book. Good leaders are practical human beings. Normal people who have the ability to do just that, LEAD. A liar doesn't make a bad leader as long as he acheives the objectives set out by his subordinates and himself and I'm not insinuating that I'm a liar. :o I can most certainly say I don't need your Leadership 101 class. Just as a side note, that officer is very very well known in the Central Region. Aswell, he has trained some of the best officers in that region aswell. I think he knows what hes saying kids. And besides, this is a Forum which is in essence a debate. Any good debater or lawyer for that matter, would do the same as I did. As to whether or not the opposition checks to confirm is another thing.

boxerboy50

19th July 2004, 10:04

And Sub Lieutenant why don't you go ahead and post that PM here. LMAO You're something else.*shakes head*

N. McKay

19th July 2004, 10:16

And Sub Lieutenant why don't you go ahead and post that PM here. LMAO You're something else.*shakes head*

I don't think so, lad -- I'm not interested in playing that game.

boxerboy50

19th July 2004, 10:25

Yeah sure. Whatever SLt.

White-1

19th July 2004, 10:33

im confused lol

jgoguen

19th July 2004, 11:27

I'd say this is getting seriously off-topic. I suggest everyone move back onto the original topic and ignore people who obviously simply want attention. Personal issues need resolving, that's what PMs are there for.

Sea-Punk724

19th July 2004, 12:43

I agree. Just because somebody made the stupid mistake of lying, doesn't mean we should convert this conversation to a dedication on trying to break them down. Grow up...

Back on topic...
French is very well-known through Canada and they are just as important as any other Canadian. Being one who fluently speaks both languages I will not lean to either side. French is spoken all throughout the country, not just Québec. I have lived in Ontario pretty much my whole life, and I learned French here. I did not ever live in Québec. Getting rid of French as a national language and sticking purely with English would be wrong. It is prejudism, a form of racism I suppose to discriminate against the French. Let the French be the way they are. It was a governmental decision to make this country bilingual, respect that.
As for doing my part on both sides: I agree, alot of the hardcore francophones do discriminate on the English, in which they shouldnt. Everyone just seems to want to hate someone these days, the English Canadians chose the French, and vice versa as well. Everyone should just let it be because that's how things are. If you want to hate someone, go ahead, but don't discriminate saying the French aren't important, or the English do every single bit of discrimination. Guess what? If you met a French person, or an English person on the street without talking to them, you wouldn't even be able to tell that they were English or French. Everyone is equal...

Ok, I'm done.

Thib

19th July 2004, 18:22

well to me this supports the belief that french speaking canadians do not want to be a part of canada.

Ok, just for fun, I'll agree with you. Now, that also mean that Ontario dosn't want to be part of Canada, they have their own flag.... Hmmmm, oh and Texas want to seperate from the USA.... And the R22eR want to seperate and make the Citadelle their own counntry they also have a flag that represent them...

ctjj.stevenson

19th July 2004, 21:25

Good day to all from HMCS QUÉBEC!

All that I will say is that the bilingualism laws in Canada is not there to force English to Francophones, and French to Anglophones. Our laws state that the services offered by the Government of Canada are, and should be offered in both official languages. However, it does not mean that any other language in Canada are not respected. This is our form of multicultualism. We have two official languages, but no official culture. This is were lies the greatness of our state.

Bonne journée à toutes!

Carter

19th July 2004, 23:06

Ok, just for fun, I'll agree with you. Now, that also mean that Ontario dosn't want to be part of Canada, they have their own flag.... Hmmmm, oh and Texas want to seperate from the USA.... And the R22eR want to seperate and make the Citadelle their own counntry they also have a flag that represent them...

Quebecqus (however you spell it) have a party wanting to seporate from Canada.

Yes Ontario has it's own flag.

jgoguen

20th July 2004, 03:11

Quebecqus (however you spell it) have a party wanting to seporate from Canada. Canada has a party wanting to make the Canadian government Communist. Doesn't mean we're all Communists :rolleyes: The desires of one party doesn't represent the desires of all people. If that were true, we wouldn't have need of elections, and there would be no complaints about the government because what they do and think is exactly what we want. Yes, Quebec has people who want to seperate from Canada. Guess what...Alberta has people wanting to seperate from Canada too. ;)

And I think you're trying to spell Quebecois :)

N. McKay

20th July 2004, 03:21

We have two official languages, but no official culture.

What's an official culture?

gunzgirl85

20th July 2004, 06:03

see the great thing about canada is that we are MULTICULTURAL
you can keep your own language and beleifs as long as they are not harmful...
we are all diverse

now some big shot countries like to assimilate everyone into one "culture".
thats wrong..

thats why canada is number one! numero un! nummer eins! numero uno! :D

wb256

24th July 2004, 13:37

Yeah sure. Whatever SLt.

arrogance is always a good thing {!}

Carter

24th July 2004, 16:26

Canada has a party wanting to make the Canadian government Communist. Doesn't mean we're all Communists :rolleyes: The desires of one party doesn't represent the desires of all people. If that were true, we wouldn't have need of elections, and there would be no complaints about the government because what they do and think is exactly what we want. Yes, Quebec has people who want to seperate from Canada. Guess what...Alberta has people wanting to seperate from Canada too. ;)

And I think you're trying to spell Quebecois :)

True Albertans want to split, however we don't not have a party anymore.

It is kinda funny how Albertans and Quebecois wanna split. Since they are full of natural resources. Meh...doubt it will happen though.

What will Canada do without us {!} :D