Downloading Music

[lord_rupert]

So downloading music - legitimate activity in protest against over-inflated CD prices or damaging to the music industry??
Thoughts please

ROO :D

[jgoguen]

Wasn't there a study done in Europe saying that the most pirated music soon became the best-selling music? And haven't sales gone up for the music industry (at the same time, didn't one label drop their prices?) in the last little while? So if I remember all that right, then definately not damaging. As for wrong...Canadian Federal Court ruled that sharing music over P2P networks is not illegal, and Justice Konrad von Finckenstein compared it to a photocopy machine in a building with copyrighted documents:

I cannon see the difference between a library that places a photocopy machine in a room full of copyrighted material and a computer user who places a personal copy [of music] on a shared directory linked to a P2P service At the same time, it's been deemed illegal in the US. Myself, I don't see the difference between downloading an album from a P2P network and my friend giving me the same album, which he purchased but I didn't.

It's all about money...and not for the artist like some people are saying. I don't remember the exact number, but I think the artist might get 1% or 2% of the price of a CD. I'll have to look for that number...either way, it's not about making sure the artist gets their fair share :rolleyes:

[wb256]

Being involved with music, and having dreams of someday releasing music myself, I have looked into this thoroughly and thought about it a lot.

Artists (the majority of them that I've spoken to anyways) make next to nothing on CD's, unless they sell them while on tour (otherwise, HMV takes the remaining profits). The majority of a band's money (I'm referring to more underground music, rather than top 40 bands) comes from the merchandise they sell while on tour.

The best way for an artist to increase this revenue is to have more people go to their shows. This is best done by advertising. Thus far, P2P sharing has been the best form of advertising for indie bands. I personally have seen SO many bands that I would have never heard of if I hadn't downloaded their music. My CD collection is also far more diverse than before.

However, this isn't to say that P2P sharing dosn't harm some people. However, it's not the artists. It's Sony, BMG, Geffen, WB, etc. The HUGE rich record companies that are responsible for the high prices and for the lack of creativity and originality on the radio are the real victims here. They ARE losing billions....but I can't help but wonder...so what?

This thing has been GREAT for indie labels that give me some sort of escape from the monotonous garbage that I hear on pop radio. I personally think if it will lead to the death of the major labels then "I'll raise my glass above my heart and shout, THAT'S WHAT THEY GET!"

[Dick]

If anything it ensures the consumer isn't getting ripped off. If an artist releases a very good CD and you have the chance to listen to all their songs prior to buying the CD you'll know if your buying a good CD. As apposed to someone like Brittney Spears who may release one good song on an entire album. Now the consumer can just get that one song rather than blowing $20 for one song and a pile of junk. And lets face it, who really cares if Brittney Spears isn't making money.

[lord_rupert]

I'm with Richard on this - I have sampled music that I would never have bought 'cold' and have subsequently purchased the CDS - the moment I can afford to I aim to get all my downloaded tracks on regular CD albums.

ROO :)

[DVessey]

I really don't feel too bad downloading music. I don't see many recording executives living out on the street near the poverty line. My morals are just fine with it.

[Bright Eyes]

In Canada it's not illegal to download. It's illegal to upload.

As a musician, with a substantial collection of music gained by P2P sharing, I don't see any problem with it. The line that I draw is that I will not download an entire album. If I really like a particular artist, then I will want the whole album and not just the songs that I like from it. I'll want the liner notes, the lyrics, the physical CD, the notes and thank yous to the artists mom and God. All of it. I'll buy the CD for that.

As far as I know, CD sales have not drastically dropped like they were predicting 3 years ago. I don't think that we'll see it change significantly in the next little while either.

[jgoguen]

I'm not so sure I agree with buying a CD from a retailer. As has already been said, the vast majority of the ticket price of a CD goes to the label company, with the artist left picking up next to nothing, while buying from the artist on tour they get a lot more. If I'm at a tour for a band I like, I'll definately buy the CD from them, and probably some merchandise too, because I know it's mostly going to the band and not to some guy's pocket who probably doesn't care much about the artist. I buy CDs to support the artist I like, not the record label I hate.

[lord_rupert]

Now the price of CD music online is so cheap that I don't buy singles - you do the maths - singles £4, albums £10.

ROO :)

[jgoguen]

As of one hour ago, the exchange rate is 1 United Kingdom Pound equals 2.42508 Canadian Dollars or 1.81677 United States Dollars. (Source: http://www.xe.com/ucc/ ) That means that one single online would cost us $9.70 CAD or $7.27 USD and one album online would cost $24.25 CAD or $18.17 USD. Plus applicable taxes of course. I wouldn't pay that much unless I was actually buying direct from the artist and I knew they'd be getting the majority of the profits. The price sounds good as a number, but remember the exchange rates.

[lord_rupert]

But then on the High Street you can pay around £17 for an album which makes £10 with postage included a very good deal.

ROO :D

[The Blue Tory]

I'm going to take this old school here...

A similar situation was when the old tape casettes... People used to record songs off the radio on to them...

Now isn't this the same thing practically? And if so the ruling that recording songs on to casette tapes is legal therefore takes precedence

[Dick]

I'm not so sure I agree with buying a CD from a retailer. As has already been said, the vast majority of the ticket price of a CD goes to the label company, with the artist left picking up next to nothing, while buying from the artist on tour they get a lot more. If I'm at a tour for a band I like, I'll definately buy the CD from them, and probably some merchandise too, because I know it's mostly going to the band and not to some guy's pocket who probably doesn't care much about the artist. I buy CDs to support the artist I like, not the record label I hate.
Sure don't buy the CD's... Then there goes the record deal the band had. There goes their major sponser who pays for them to go on tour. There goes your tours. There goes your band. Buying the CD still supports the band in way or another. If your the big rich record label, and you have a band that's not selling any albums... why would you keep them?

[Neo]

In Canada it's not illegal to download. It's illegal to upload.

Actually, I think the recent Canadian Court ruling makes it legal to both download and upload music, I may be wrong though.

[SLt Hillier]

Actually, I think the recent Canadian Court ruling makes it legal to both download and upload music, I may be wrong though.
I was thinking the same thing Chief.

IMO, I have no problems with it. Back in the day, I tapped off Much Music, now I get it off the net. top 40 stuff I download, and toss when it gets old. I find bands I have never heard of and go buy their album. Besides, there is a levy I pay on recordable formats that is suppose to go to artists.

Heck itunes and the likes are making tonnes of money now. THe RIAA going after downloaders is simply a kneejerk reaction that will cool down in time.

[BMaloney]

I really don't know what to say on this topic. I believe that it shouldn't be illegal. Somehow we're supposed to feel sorry when BMG United loses money and we're just supposed to smile when we buy a cd that is $21 and $20 overpriced with one good song. I'm willing to bet that record company executives don't even buy the darn CDs anyways at that price.

And besides, haven't record sales gone UP since?

[Logan]

just remember that in Canada it can not be illegal to copy media on to burnable CDs because there is a Government tax on them and they can not tax an illegal substance. except for income tax that they can tax you on.

[Neo]

CD-R's and CD-RW's and the sort are not illegal by any means. Sony which has a Music Division also produces Burnable Media, therefore, they are only furthering their own problem...

They are trying to have the best of both worlds...

[gunzgirl85]

CD-R's and CD-RW's and the sort are not illegal by any means. Sony which has a Music Division also produces Burnable Media, therefore, they are only furthering their own problem...

They are trying to have the best of both worlds...
hahaha
you know i never thought of that
they are condemming something and then doing it themselves....i forget what that word is....starts with h! ahhh! and i just started moving out of my room so my dictionnary was one of the first to go :rolleyes:

[Walsh]

It is both good and bad.

The Bad:
It is stealing which is bad.

The Good:
The artist makes very little from a CD, I wouldn't mind so much if artists made more money.
CDs are filled with filler with few good songs.
RIAA is evil. Sueing 12 year olds is not cool. Therefore sticking it to the man is acceptable.
We already pay a levy on digital media that "COULD" be used to 'pirate' music.

You weight the options.

[CONtroversial_subject]

Artists don't make alot of money off album sales, not just cuz of HMV but primarily cuz of their contracts. Thats just how it works, you put out a record on somebody's label, they take most the money, now your famous and you sign some people to your label, and make money. From there you can diverse into clothing, movies.. even hotel chains (shout out Snoop!). It all starts with selling albums though!

[Pilot]

However, this isn't to say that P2P sharing dosn't harm some people. However, it's not the artists. It's Sony, BMG, Geffen, WB, etc. The HUGE rich record companies that are responsible for the high prices and for the lack of creativity and originality on the radio are the real victims here. They ARE losing billions....but I can't help but wonder...so what?

This thing has been GREAT for indie labels that give me some sort of escape from the monotonous garbage that I hear on pop radio. I personally think if it will lead to the death of the major labels then "I'll raise my glass above my heart and shout, THAT'S WHAT THEY GET!"

WELL SAID!...

You CANNOT charge over $20/cd for a cd with two hits on it.. and that's what happened for years and years... when the mix tape was around, you didn't hear so much screaming...

It's just now you've started to see CD prices ocming down... but frankly I see no difference.. if you like the artist, you'll buy their cd... it's nice to be able to evaluate their music before you go out and buy for sure...

[marek]

Downloading music is like putting a photocopy machine in a public library... anyone can photocopy copywritten pages from a book, and the analogy has been converted to music. Hence why it is legal in Ontario now. Also ever since Napster was created, reasearch was done and the overall sales of Compact Disc music has increased.

[Pilot]

Downloading music is like putting a photocopy machine in a public library... anyone can photocopy copywritten pages from a book, and the analogy has been converted to music. Hence why it is legal in Ontario now. Also ever since Napster was created, reasearch was done and the overall sales of Compact Disc music has increased.

wait... I think it's more fun to cry wolf, don't you? ;)

[marek]

wait... I think it's more fun to cry wolf, don't you? ;)

Not really, since Im a lifeguard I yell at the kids who are crying wolf in my pool... Its just that me and my friend had this conversation at the pool and she told me that, and i thought that was an incredible argument. Then I browsed through threads and found this one, so posted the argument.

[sailor_baby]

hahaha
you know i never thought of that
they are condemming something and then doing it themselves....i forget what that word is....starts with h! ahhh! and i just started moving out of my room so my dictionnary was one of the first to go :rolleyes:


hypochracy?hypocrite? (sp??)...lol......but ya I agree with the majority that's posting. If authors and publishers can get over the fact that people photocopy things from their copyrighted books or reference materials, why can't the music labels get over people downloading music? Like, as long as you don't use the music to make money off of others (by burning them CDs for a fee), I don't see what's wrong with it.

[Pilot]

Not really, since Im a lifeguard I yell at the kids who are crying wolf in my pool... Its just that me and my friend had this conversation at the pool and she told me that, and i thought that was an incredible argument. Then I browsed through threads and found this one, so posted the argument.
it was interesting that you did.. do you have a source for that? (just curious for my own info)

I'm just not a fan of the big labels who continually are saying "we're losing major money here" not the artists.. The day when I see a record label exec on the street, I'll start feeling concerned about the situation. Until then...

[marek]

it was interesting that you did.. do you have a source for that? (just curious for my own info)

I'm just not a fan of the big labels who continually are saying "we're losing major money here" not the artists.. The day when I see a record label exec on the street, I'll start feeling concerned about the situation. Until then...

Unfortunately I dont have an official source, so no. But my friend Jenn said she heard it on the news not too long ago. So research it on the net if your actually that serious about this.

[The Blue Tory]

it was interesting that you did.. do you have a source for that? (just curious for my own info)

I'm just not a fan of the big labels who continually are saying "we're losing major money here" not the artists.. The day when I see a record label exec on the street, I'll start feeling concerned about the situation. Until then...

I'd rather give my money to a homeless person on the street, instead of to a record producer who may end up on the street due to losses...

That way I know the money is being appreciated, no matter what it used for, be it clothing, shelter, food, booze, etc.

If I give to a record producer, it's just another $20, and more money in their bank account

[Pilot]

Unfortunately I dont have an official source, so no. But my friend Jenn said she heard it on the news not too long ago. So research it on the net if your actually that serious about this.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2004-04-01-fileshare_x.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/01/22/media.music.reut/
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5-975372,00.html

it seems as though it is this IFPI seems to think otherwise... I'll keep looking into it though.. you have me curious now ...

[wingnut]

well here in Australia the main Music store is "Sanity" there is like a "Sanity" store in every town!!!lol Umm a single from Sanity is around $5-$8 and an Album can be around the $30 mark to up to $40. But you can get them cheaper at Department Stores like BigW/KMart/Target and them sort of places or other music stores.

[Pilot]

wow that's expensive!

[marek]

I know in Toronto (I'm from Brampton which is Northwest of T.O.) Compact Disc Albums cost anywhere from about $8 all the way to $23 Canadian. Mind you that the one's for $8 are kind of 'no-namers' etc. Usually a 'reputable' band/artist will sell between $13 to $19. That is the regulary price I found.

[Logan]

when I hear from an indpendant 3rd party that the music industry is losing a lot of money over this i'll think twice, but coming from the industry it's self not sure if i want to believe that. any way i saw an article a couple days ago that i'm going to go looking for that says that the industry is actually selling more albums now than 3 years ago and that was from a neutral 3rd party.

[Agnew]

The current average price per CD is approx 18$. Where does this go? I will tell you.

$7 goes to the retailer *
$1.5 goes to the distributor *
$6.4 goes to the record company for EXPENSES *
$2.85 for performer and composer royalties *

So what's left over? $0.25 *. That's 25 cents that is profit. ONLY 25 CENTS!!!!! What is wrong with you people. If the record company decided to not make any profit anymore, the average cost of a CD would drop to..17.75. Wow, look at that difference..isn't incredible? No.

The artist makes approx 2.85 off each CD. For every million CDs sold, they will receive 2,850,000. Hmm...pocket change to an artist??

iTunes and Napster, you pay 99 cents per song. Most albums have between 15-20 songs on them(more top 40ish ones, not smaller 'unknown' bands). That's 14.85 - 19.80 for an album. Although they do have their fancy smancy bundle thingers, making it cheaper. But still. Buying on the net eliminates the distributor cost(and someone loses a job), and the retailer price is generally lowered.

I read on a site once, something like this.

If the revenue per CD is 0$, it doesn't matter how much of that zero goes to the artist. No matter what future you hope for, if you want to enjoy recorded music it had better involve some kind of payment.

And.. why the hell would you buy the CD if you already had the songs on you computer??!?? It's called CDR! Like 1 dolla a piece! You can customize your CD beyond all others, and rip off your favorite artist... AT THE SAME TIME! Wow.

* Expenses/Revenues per CD vary from CD to CD and Label to Label. Retailers may have sales, record companies may have a greater/lesser exspense/profit(between $0.1-$2.0 profit), and and royalties may be greater or lesser.

[The Blue Tory]

The current average price per CD is approx 18$. Where does this go? I will tell you.

$7 goes to the retailer *
$1.5 goes to the distributor *
$6.4 goes to the record company for EXPENSES *
$2.85 for performer and composer royalties *

So what's left over? $0.25 *. That's 25 cents that is profit. ONLY 25 CENTS!!!!! What is wrong with you people. If the record company decided to not make any profit anymore, the average cost of a CD would drop to..17.75. Wow, look at that difference..isn't incredible? No.

The artist makes approx 2.85 off each CD. For every million CDs sold, they will receive 2,850,000. Hmm...pocket change to an artist??

iTunes and Napster, you pay 99 cents per song. Most albums have between 15-20 songs on them(more top 40ish ones, not smaller 'unknown' bands). That's 14.85 - 19.80 for an album. Although they do have their fancy smancy bundle thingers, making it cheaper. But still. Buying on the net eliminates the distributor cost(and someone loses a job), and the retailer price is generally lowered.

I read on a site once, something like this.

If the revenue per CD is 0$, it doesn't matter how much of that zero goes to the artist. No matter what future you hope for, if you want to enjoy recorded music it had better involve some kind of payment.

And.. why the hell would you buy the CD if you already had the songs on you computer??!?? It's called CDR! Like 1 dolla a piece! You can customize your CD beyond all others, and rip off your favorite artist... AT THE SAME TIME! Wow.

* Expenses/Revenues per CD vary from CD to CD and Label to Label. Retailers may have sales, record companies may have a greater/lesser exspense/profit(between $0.1-$2.0 profit), and and royalties may be greater or lesser.
you do pay though...

you pay for the computer on which you access the internet that you paid for, and download and burn on to a cd of which you also paid for

[army_gurl_74]

Downloading music is like...
-Taping songs from the radio(in the old days:p)
-Recording a movie from tv
-photocopying copyright material when the "cancopy" list in the library says its okay

I personally think that it is a good way for unknown artists to be known. If I didn't download some of the music that I have in the past year or so, I probably would have never of heard of them otherwise, nor would I have bought their cd's

[Agnew]

you do pay though...

you pay for the computer on which you access the internet that you paid for, and download and burn on to a cd of which you also paid for

Since when does Jive make computers? Where does Snoop Dog or the Backstreet Boys get profit from the money paid for my computer? I think Compaq and Philips, Microsoft and Shaw get the money I(as in my parents) paid for my(my) computer and internet. And the CDR or CDRW you purchased may or may not be manufactured by a music label, but thats a whole different sector, and I also don't think DMX or *NSync will be getting royalties from the compact disks you burn your music onto.

There are hundreds of websites that offer music from developing artists for you to hear. You can download those songs for free, listen to them, copy them, do almost anything, and it is COMPOLETELY legal! Also, many companies have samples of songs or full songs in which you can download for free. Big artists tend to have websites which have jukeboxes and music videos available.

Taping songs from the radio. Of course we've done it, but todays technology allows for us to copy files(music/video) without losing any of the sound quality. Back in the day, recording onto cassette tapes dimished the quality, after every copy. So if you wanted to listen to a flawless song, you'd be able to buy the cassette in store without the bad quality of such recordings. But if I downloaded a songs off an album, and I liked them all, it would be dumb, completely senseless for me(me) to go and buy the real CD when I can just burn it.

Yes, music sales have been going up, but is it directly or indirectly linked to the internet and pirated music, we can't know for sure. But that's overall sales. Yes, more amateur artists are being recognized, but the more popular ones seem to be losing sales from people who think "I'll just get it from the net". This attitude is killing the music industry.

It seems to me all of you have this stereotypical image of record executives. Evil demon childs of Satan himself, born for one reason, to make you pay for music. This isn't the case. They have families, they have depts, they have expenses. Do you think that some homeless bumb whom dropped out of school in grade 2 is running these companies? These people have earned their job. They have advisors, boards and many other people telling them how to do their job. Just because their salary is up over the 250k doesn't mean they are heartless people. Plus their taxes probably eat them alive, so angry mobs like you don't have to...

Recording a movie off your TV. Well, considering when a network runs a movie, they are paying thousands of dollars in royalties and stuff, I think that isn't an issue. I don't think Joe Bloe payed thousands of dollars to put a Snoop Doggy Dog dude song on his website. I don't see that happening. Plus, a movie wont make it to TV(not even PPV) for many months after it's release. It goes from the theaters, to DVD and PPV, to Dinner and a movie. Same thing here, you wont get the same quality recording to a VHS from dinner and a movie. Plus you usually have commercials.

I went to see 'The Girl Next Door' (great movie I'd say :P), and there was this 'commercial' or info thinger about pirating music. Practically a stunt man, who risks his life every time he goes to work, and he says that music pirating is really hurting the industry. And it is. DVD sales are going down. You can EASILY download a full DVD and burn it and watch it on you DVD player. You can get DVDs for like 5 bucks on the streets or black market. Anyways, downloading DVDs or recording the film shows complete disrespect to the industry. You didn't pay for it.

Photocopying material in libraries. Ok, here's the thing, books on the can copy list tend to be books with a wealth of information. I don't think they allow you to copy books meant for enjoyment. Earnest Hemingway(spl?) and Agatha Christie and other great authors probably don't have their books copied. And when they are, I don't see a person photocopying all 300+ pages to take home and read. So you only get a small segment or 'clip' of the book. This allows for people to take interest in a book and buy it. But if you've photocopied the entire book(if you're willing to fork out like $15 in copying charges) why would you buy it after you already have it? Usually you are charged 5-25 cents a sheet.

You can buy the rights to copy almost anything, may it be movies, music, or books. But you may end up forking out thousands of dollars(in royalties) to allow people to freely download copyrighted songs from you. I believe royalties are based on how many possible people may download/view/copy the source. Global will pay less to air a movie than HBO or FOX would. Why, because more will see and potential copy it. Once you've seen a movie, it tends to become a lower priority on buying it than if you hadn't.

So yeah. I think it'd be easier if people just paid for their music, rather than complain about not getting it free. If you have the determination(and it don't take much) try going to your favorite artists website, their record labels website, or even their managers website, and have a look. You'll usually find music clips, music videos, full songs, and much more, for FREE.

[BMaloney]

hahaha
you know i never thought of that
they are condemming something and then doing it themselves....i forget what that word is....starts with h! ahhh! and i just started moving out of my room so my dictionnary was one of the first to go :rolleyes:

That's called a hypocrite or the philosophy is called Doublethink from 1984.

[piper]

I download music off the net, and I also buy the occasional CD. As long as CD's are going to cost 20$+, I will keep downloading music, I just can't afford to keep buying all these expenisve CD's, I use mommy and daddy's computer to get it for free instead. Seriously though, its getting awefully expensive to listen to music these days, 20$ a CD, 50-60$(minimum) to see a popular artist in concert etc etc.

[Walsh]

Downloading music is like...
-Recording a movie from tv
No, because they make royalties everytime the film is aired on TV. So they are still being paid, by you, when you pay for Cable/Sat. or by the advertisments you watch.

[Logan]

I also don't think DMX or *NSync will be getting royalties from the compact disks you burn your music onto.
they don't get royalties but they do get the money from the tax on writable media. If I want to back up my hard drive so i buy a writable disc music artists make money. so don't go say that proformers don't make money off of people downloading music and burning CDs.

[Agnew]

I download music off the net, and I also buy the occasional CD. As long as CD's are going to cost 20$+, I will keep downloading music, I just can't afford to keep buying all these expenisve CD's, I use mommy and daddy's computer to get it for free instead. Seriously though, its getting awefully expensive to listen to music these days, 20$ a CD, 50-60$(minimum) to see a popular artist in concert etc etc.

Those 50-60 dollar tickets would be pretty crappy seats..eh? Nowadays, good seats are so expensive, sometimes reaching up to $300. But they have to cover expenses and make a bit of profit. But hey, they seem to always sell out. Like the Backstreet Boys concerts back in 2001, the tickets were sold out in like 45 minutes after going on sale. And then theres those people who buy tickets and then resell them for up to 10 times the original price. Ugh, I'd feel guilty charging someone like 700 bucks for a crap seat. And I'd feel like crap if I bought one. Anyways, the cameras have a better view! lol.

[K Piper]

Those 50-60 dollar tickets would be pretty crappy seats..eh? Nowadays, good seats are so expensive, sometimes reaching up to $300. But they have to cover expenses and make a bit of profit. But hey, they seem to always sell out. Like the Backstreet Boys concerts back in 2001, the tickets were sold out in like 45 minutes after going on sale. And then theres those people who buy tickets and then resell them for up to 10 times the original price. Ugh, I'd feel guilty charging someone like 700 bucks for a crap seat. And I'd feel like crap if I bought one. Anyways, the cameras have a better view! lol.
Seats? Floor is General Admission.

Here concerts range from $40 to $70.

Warped tour is $40.... best bang for buck. 70ish bands 6 stages 12 hours.... MAN, gonna be fun.

[army_gurl_74]

No, because they make royalties everytime the film is aired on TV. So they are still being paid, by you, when you pay for Cable/Sat. or by the advertisments you watch.

But you are still getting it for free... :p

[Agnew]

But you are still getting it for free... :p

No. You are paying your cable/satelitte provider(I hope) for the service. They take that money(most of it anyways) and pay for channels they can provide you. Those channels that get the money can now pay for quality programming and to air things like sitcoms and movies. So you do pay for it. Whether it's that movie package where you get 5 movie channels for like 4.99 or Superstation, which you get with basic cable, you are paying for the programming. Also, commercials pay for a lot of things. Just like pop-up ads and banners.

Speaking of internet advertising...it's really starting to **** me off. UGH! Download one thing, get something completely different. What's with these people who think that pop-ups are good things, and that spyware and adware are fun to put in your computer? I feel a bit heartless, but the day someone goes psycho and kills some pop-up company exec, I wont feel to bad. Maybe pop-ups would go away..maybe! Like crucifying Jesus washed away all our sins...(i think...?).

Anyways, that was off topic.

And concert tickets really do range in prices. 12 hour concert...:o!

[CONtroversial_subject]

The current average price per CD is approx 18$. Where does this go? I will tell you.

$7 goes to the retailer *
$1.5 goes to the distributor *
$6.4 goes to the record company for EXPENSES *
$2.85 for performer and composer royalties *

So what's left over? $0.25 *. That's 25 cents that is profit. ONLY 25 CENTS!!!!! What is wrong with you people. If the record company decided to not make any profit anymore, the average cost of a CD would drop to..17.75. Wow, look at that difference..isn't incredible? No.

The artist makes approx 2.85 off each CD. For every million CDs sold, they will receive 2,850,000. Hmm...pocket change to an artist??

iTunes and Napster, you pay 99 cents per song. Most albums have between 15-20 songs on them(more top 40ish ones, not smaller 'unknown' bands). That's 14.85 - 19.80 for an album. Although they do have their fancy smancy bundle thingers, making it cheaper. But still. Buying on the net eliminates the distributor cost(and someone loses a job), and the retailer price is generally lowered.

I read on a site once, something like this.

If the revenue per CD is 0$, it doesn't matter how much of that zero goes to the artist. No matter what future you hope for, if you want to enjoy recorded music it had better involve some kind of payment.

And.. why the hell would you buy the CD if you already had the songs on you computer??!?? It's called CDR! Like 1 dolla a piece! You can customize your CD beyond all others, and rip off your favorite artist... AT THE SAME TIME! Wow.

* Expenses/Revenues per CD vary from CD to CD and Label to Label. Retailers may have sales, record companies may have a greater/lesser exspense/profit(between $0.1-$2.0 profit), and and royalties may be greater or lesser.

no the Record Company makes the largest chunk of change, dont get it twisted. For example, Its Dark and Hell is Hot, DMX's debut album made a couple hundred million dollars, you know how much the artist (DMX) made? $3 Million. The artist makes peanuts, the record label CEOs are the ones gettin paid. For example:

Eminem made The Slim Shady LP with Aftermath and Dr. Dre got paid. Then he made his own label signed D-12, signed Obie Trice, signed 50 Cent and got that big chunk off all their debut albums. He also expanded to movies, clothing etc. to make a dollar. The industry works a lil different than you saying in your innacurate BUT very mathematical approach.

[Agnew]

no the Record Company makes the largest chunk of change, dont get it twisted. For example, Its Dark and Hell is Hot, DMX's debut album made a couple hundred million dollars, you know how much the artist (DMX) made? $3 Million. The artist makes peanuts, the record label CEOs are the ones gettin paid. For example:

Eminem made The Slim Shady LP with Aftermath and Dr. Dre got paid. Then he made his own label signed D-12, signed Obie Trice, signed 50 Cent and got that big chunk off all their debut albums. He also expanded to movies, clothing etc. to make a dollar. The industry works a lil different than you saying in your innacurate BUT very mathematical approach.

DMX isn't making money off of his albums(not as much as he would like) because he signed a piece of paper saying called a contract. He can't sing for other companies, or even himself, because he signed a contract saying that this company has the right to do w/e they want to with my music.

Ok, here is the thing. His debut album(Its Dark and Hell is Hot) didn't earn hundreds of millions of dollars. It earned a few million. Less than 4 million to be exact. You see, it only sold 249,000 units. This is 2x platinum. In order for him to have earned MILLIONS from this album, he would have had to have charged approx $400.00 per album. Anybody pay that much for that album? Didn't think so!

He earned Def Jam 144 million in 2003, though. Doesn't say how much he earned himself. And he got 3 million dollar LOAN for his next album, even though he said he's not going to 'sing' anymore.

Not even going to go into your second paragraph. It's not hard to check your facts. This is the internet, BILLIONS of GIGABYTES of INFORMATION! I love it. Haven't seen it all...but I've seen about this much of it ( |-| )!

[RatherBeFlyin]

It's just more convienient to download music on your computer at home and burn it onto a CD, that's how I see it. Just as long as you don't go out selling those CD's.

[CONtroversial_subject]

DMX isn't making money off of his albums(not as much as he would like) because he signed a piece of paper saying called a contract. He can't sing for other companies, or even himself, because he signed a contract saying that this company has the right to do w/e they want to with my music.

Ok, here is the thing. His debut album(Its Dark and Hell is Hot) didn't earn hundreds of millions of dollars. It earned a few million. Less than 4 million to be exact. You see, it only sold 249,000 units. This is 2x platinum. In order for him to have earned MILLIONS from this album, he would have had to have charged approx $400.00 per album. Anybody pay that much for that album? Didn't think so!

He earned Def Jam 144 million in 2003, though. Doesn't say how much he earned himself. And he got 3 million dollar LOAN for his next album, even though he said he's not going to 'sing' anymore.

Not even going to go into your second paragraph. It's not hard to check your facts. This is the internet, BILLIONS of GIGABYTES of INFORMATION! I love it. Haven't seen it all...but I've seen about this much of it ( |-| )!

I got my facts from XXL Magazine THE NEW SOURCE for hiphop, so I really dont give a.. where ya got your info. This is my work, its what i know. And they all gotta sign a contract, thats how you blow up, you get introduced by somebody who already made it, and it makes u hott so u can introduce the next cat. Whatever is made off an album most of it goes to the record label, so unless u got your own label you aint makin that much scratch.

[Jiggy]

I think its sick when people say that artists dont make enough money....OHhhhhhhhhhh more meeeeeee Im a mulit millionaire and people are downloading my music so I cant get more money. SUCK IT UP..... i think its disgusting how rich these people are. Personally I download music, but I always buy the CD if i like the music enough.....if i only like one song by someone, i m not buying the cd

[Logan]

not all artists are rich only the ones who are big enough to demand more money in their contracts or are highly successful on tour.

[CONtroversial_subject]

artists especially rappers aren't all that rich. They dress the part in the music videos, but alot of em still live in the projects. It isn't until they get their own label that they make any real money. The Labels take all the cash, they end up with a couple percent of what their album made, so if on top of all that ppl are stealing their music, id be ****** off too.

[Schisca]

well, downloading music in Canada isn't illegal so I don't really care here, but if it was made illegal I would stop.

[Walsh]

artists especially rappers aren't all that rich. They dress the part in the music videos, but alot of em still live in the projects. It isn't until they get their own label that they make any real money. The Labels take all the cash, they end up with a couple percent of what their album made, so if on top of all that ppl are stealing their music, id be ****** off too.

sure they might live in the projects, but they drive escalades, have thousands in "bling" and drink and smoke alot.

they make lots on tour.

[Murrdawg]

In Canada it's not illegal to download. It's illegal to upload.

As a musician, with a substantial collection of music gained by P2P sharing, I don't see any problem with it. The line that I draw is that I will not download an entire album. If I really like a particular artist, then I will want the whole album and not just the songs that I like from it. I'll want the liner notes, the lyrics, the physical CD, the notes and thank yous to the artists mom and God. All of it. I'll buy the CD for that.

As far as I know, CD sales have not drastically dropped like they were predicting 3 years ago. I don't think that we'll see it change significantly in the next little while either.
Actually, there is a case in front of the courts to do the same thing in Canada as the States. I read it myself...

[Dick]

www.filemp3.org (http://www.filemp3.org), for all you bitTorrent fans :)

[RatherBeFlyin]

Sometimes when a band or singer comes out with a new album, there might only be like 1 or 2 good songs on it. Why buy a CD for only one song?

[Bright Eyes]

sure they might live in the projects, but they drive escalades, have thousands in "bling" and drink and smoke alot.

they make lots on tour.
Actually, most of the stuff in those videos is rented just for the shoot. You'd be surprised at how much rental business is done for photo shoots, awards shows, videos and appearances. There's also big business in companies giving goods to big celebrities just to have their product associated with the name. It's like a free billboard.

[Kass]

just remember that in Canada it can not be illegal to copy media on to burnable CDs because there is a Government tax on them and they can not tax an illegal substance. except for income tax that they can tax you on.

OK so CD-R and CD-RW's aren't illegal. but it doesnt mean they can't be used for illegal purposes. eg It is legal to buy a knife (steak knife, bread knife, what ever you want), BUT it is illegal to kill someone/injure someone with a knife. It is legal to buy CDs but that does not mean that all possible uses for that CD are legal, or have to be legal.



Sometimes when a band or singer comes out with a new album, there might only be like 1 or 2 good songs on it. Why buy a CD for only one song?

Buy the single then.

[roman_d]

A lot of the music i listen to/download is not even available in most music stores. Last time i went to a music store and asked for some Spragga Benz, or ugly ducklin' i got a blank stare.

[Bill Z Fan]

that's true but it's best not to.

[whitefang]

www.filemp3.org (http://www.filemp3.org), for all you bitTorrent fans :)
thanks much :D getting me the new system of a down cd now, but i will buy it when it comes out of course

[Murrdawg]

TSk, tsk. Downloading music. Closer to being illegal in Canada, unless you pay for it...

[Shippy]

TSk, tsk. Downloading music. Closer to being illegal in Canada, unless you pay for it...

ummm quite the opposite... Canadian law has done nothing but protect Downloaders as so far, and it appears that it will continue!

[Murrdawg]

That is wrong!!! Take a look in one of last week's papers. Tehre was an article stating that there is currently a case in front of the courts to change Canadian law on downloading music. The consequence of this (the record companies hope) is to have similar laws as the States

[Hammarskjold]

Find the newspaper article online to support what you're saying!

Most newspapers in Canada will have online websites where you can browse or search past stories...

Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com)
Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/)
National Post (http://www.nationalpost.com/)

[Chief Hoult]

That is wrong!!! Take a look in one of last week's papers. Tehre was an article stating that there is currently a case in front of the courts to change Canadian law on downloading music. The consequence of this (the record companies hope) is to have similar laws as the States

I'm sure there's a case there, but what the record companies hope for, and what has actually been done so far, are a little different.

[Geotech]

Okay anyone who knows me, knows that I download alot of music, i have something like 15 folders of tracks on my computer usually ranging from 12-24 hours worth in each folder, on the flipside i also own alot of cd's anyone who has been on staff with me knows that, basicly it comes down to the fact that if i like the artist i will absolutely go buy the CD, cause well artists will always great fan support its never going to change. And you dont need to download music to be passing it, i know my music editing program i have on my computer, and most burning programs, have a rip feature where you can rip a track from a cd, save it to your computer and then pass it, so there is always ways around it, same with making you pay for the music you download, you can get so many full programs that cost big money off the net now its crazy, and you guys who sit in here and say if they make it illegal i am not going to do it anymore and thats a joke because i am guessing 95% of us has a pirated computer program, which is legal, but you know what the government doesnt crack down on it, as long as you are not selling it in mass quanties in all good. And as far as music goes i do play in a band the same one since i was like 16 so yeah i do appreiate artists talent whole-heartedly, but the whole artists are losing money thing, those who complain about it have lost the point of playing music, and its all a case of the whole people who are rich getting richer and the poor staying that way. If and when they make it illegal to download and pass music, i will more than likely stop passing it, but as far as downloading for my own personal use more than likely not. On a side note if anyone wants to hear the new staind single, i've had it for over a month, got it off a friend of mine who works for a radio station, and the single is not due to hit airwaves for at least another month, so PM me if you want to hear it.

[Dick]

On a side note if anyone wants to hear the new staind single, i've had it for over a month, got it off a friend of mine who works for a radio station, and the single is not due to hit airwaves for at least another month, so PM me if you want to hear it.

Man, if you want advance releases go to filemp3.org
I get most albums a few months before they come out for retail :)

Which in a way is bad, because by the time I can buy it, I've lost interest in it and don't want it anymore lol.

[Tomtom]

Okay anyone who knows me, knows that I download alot of music, i have something like 15 folders of tracks on my computer usually ranging from 12-24 hours worth in each folder, on the flipside i also own alot of cd's


Same with me, except I don't own any CD's at all.

On my computer I have 386 full albums (I mostly only download full albums), each album is in it's own folder with the album cover art displayed.

That's a total of 6,812 MP3's, my music folder file size is 25.1 GB.

What I actually listen too?... hardley any of it. LOL

I pretty much search Amazon.ca Music or MuchMusic or Columbia House and then go and download any CD that looks interesting. I use the program EDonkey for my downloading needs and it has never let me down yet.

[Murrdawg]

The source: The Intelligencer (Belleville newspaper)

[condor888000]

No link.


Stupid must be 10+ characters...........

[Shippy]

That is wrong!!! Take a look in one of last week's papers. Tehre was an article stating that there is currently a case in front of the courts to change Canadian law on downloading music. The consequence of this (the record companies hope) is to have similar laws as the States

ummm no... check the ruling on that... it said that ISP do NOT need to give out IP addresses to the music industry. It came out on friday (ill find a link later).


I download like a mofo here too... (about the same as Tomtom)... I just DL the entire albums. Why? I am unemployed, and most of music is A) hard to find, B) expensive cause it has to be imported. I listen to a LOT of swedish bands, what does that mean? 30 to 40 dollars for what a similar sized domestic album might cost 15 to 20. Thats a big price difference, so I just download what I want. Am I really hurting the music industry? Hell no. First off, the labels I am downloading, arnt even American and most have no problems with the DL of music. Second, I can rarely find what I want a "record" store around here, and I would just be mail ordering from Sweden anyways! so the shipping company would be making more of a profit anyways! Third, half of what I have on my computer... I CAN FIND ON THE BANDS WEBSITE! So this leads the the problem... If ISPs are released, then what is making my activies illegal? I could very well be getting everything I DL legally, and legitmently, but I would still be flagged for investigation, and that would intrude on my rights to privacy.

For all you people who think they just "know" who is DLing... they dont. ISP very rarely keep a record of your activites, but do little more the track your internet usage rate. If it is high, then you are probably file sharing. If the supreme court said yes to any of these petions from Music industry, it would be to find out who the high traffic users are. That means very little, cause then they actually have to investigate you (by now actually tracking your usage, cause you have know been flagged). ISPs dont want this cause then thier customers get angry at them cause they want what they do to be private, not public knowledge.

[Scoopable]

I download a ton of music... I enjoy music, and I have next to no money, I make my money by Making cd covers and designs for indee bands (wow go figure eh) does the lack of money mean I shouldn't be able to enjoy music?

[Lil Lightnin]

Does your lack of money mean you should be allowed to enjoy someones product for free without their consent?

[Dick]

Does your lack of money mean you should be allowed to enjoy someones product for free without their consent?

He can't be that poor if he has a computer and high speed internet. I'm sure you could cancel you internet bill and that would cover the cost of a few albums a month.

[Bright Eyes]

I'm poor ... and I like driving!

Whee! I'm getting me a new car thanks to the Chris Watt method (tm)!!! :D

[Murrdawg]

No link.


Stupid must be 10+ characters...........
No link due to local newspaper. Its not as big as the toronto sun that's for sure. Ever been to TACSTC? If not, then not hard to see why you don't understand. I'm sure more changes will come to downloading musci.

[Shippy]

He can't be that poor if he has a computer and high speed internet. I'm sure you could cancel you internet bill and that would cover the cost of a few albums a month.

Most of us are just freeloading off of our parents remember... and I dont know about you, but my parents wounldnt be to happy about droping 100+ dollars a month on me to feed my appiette for music.


Those of you who are so critical of people who Download music, is it really fair for your to critise? To throw down the good old bible cliche "he who is without sin, cast the first stone". I am sure that most of you have are not scott free when it comes to illegal activites.

[jhunter]

Now, what if you can't watch your show at 7-8pm, so you tape it and watch it later? Isn't that fair use? Sure it is. Now what if you could have a smart VCR that will only tape the program and not the commercials? Is that legal? Sure it is. The owner doesn't care if you watch the commercials because the commercials are the method the station uses to generate cash...the owner already got cash from the station.

Now, lets say your VCR is busted, but you really want to watch that show you like watching. Instead of using the VCR, you download the show off the internet...and it's in high definition, better then your VCR, and there's no commercials. Is it illegal to download it? No, download away. Is it illegal to upload it without paying the owner? Generally, it is. There are exceptions, depending on what country you live in. For Canada, for the time being, you're allowed.

[Geotech]

Same with me, except I don't own any CD's at all.

On my computer I have 386 full albums (I mostly only download full albums), each album is in it's own folder with the album cover art displayed.

That's a total of 6,812 MP3's, my music folder file size is 25.1 GB.

What I actually listen too?... hardley any of it. LOL

I pretty much search Amazon.ca Music or MuchMusic or Columbia House and then go and download any CD that looks interesting. I use the program EDonkey for my downloading needs and it has never let me down yet.


Yeah see with me i listen to all the music on my computer, and i am also the source for most of my friends to obtain music, basicly if they dont have it or cant find it, they know i do.

[Loyal Edmonton]

and i am also the source for most of my friends to obtain music, basicly if they dont have it or cant find it, they know i do.


Oh ho ho I most certainly do, now get back to work downloading for me!