Fahrenheit 9/11

[UnluckyLove]

So what does everyone think of this movie. It came out today. It's directed by Michael Moore, it's about President Bush and his antics and what happened before/after the 9-11 attacks on the USA. It's incrediby controversial, and it's rated R. What does everyone think of it?

EC

[Insane Power Pilot]

I'll say what I think of it if and when I see it. I'll probably download it illegally or pirate the DVD when it comes out...I'm not shelling out money to Michael Moore... :) But if the film raises good points and stuff that's actually true, I'll gladly mention it here.

[GIDuce]

By what i've heard this movie isn't factuially acurate and to take it to heart would be foolish. Bush is a good man and I will not watch a movie that munipulates his words to potray him as this dose.

[piper]

Micheal Moore makes a few good movies (a FEW) and brings up a couple of good points. But all he is is a little s*** disturber who, seeing as he couldn't do anything else with his life, decided to get under the skin of anyone more important then him in the name of free speech. I really don't like him.

[wb256]

I FULLY support those that have crazy antics in the name of free speech. If it wasn't for people who push the limits, our freedom would be seriously reduced.

Howard Stern, Marylin Manson, etc...they've all got an important message that everyone seems to be missing.

Anyways, as for Moore. I find that in his movies when he shows something that's not true it's satire/humour. A lot of people don't realize when he's switching from satire to truth and then call him a liar.

His movies are usually 1/2 documentary and 1/2 art.

And for whoever called Bush a good man, I disagree. Not because of propaganda that I've seen/read, but just because of the types of buisnesses that he's worked, and because of his policies since he's gotten into office. Relaxing the geneva convention?? Saying no to the international court? Ignoring Kyoto (and relaxing ALL other enviromental controls)?

He's not number one in my books. He's screwing up a country (in my opinion...but it's not my country so I don't really have the right to say) and messing up international relations like CRAZY. For everyone's sake I hope he dosn't get re-elected...I just hope that this movie dosn't cause a huge reactionist movement because of it's "untruths" (which are, I'm assuming, as usual, satire) which helps bush.

[Lil Lightnin]

I plan on seeing it in the next couple of days for sure. Until then I can't really comment on it. It's rated 14A by the way, not R.

[Logan]

We have different ratings in Canada than the US thats why its 14A

[UnluckyLove]

We have different ratings in Canada than the US thats why its 14A

YES!!! Now I can see it...14A! Even thought I'd have probably seen it anyway.

EC

[Drill Goddess]

I think it well be interesting to see.

[condor888000]

YES!!! Now I can see it...14A! Even thought I'd have probably seen it anyway.

EC

Even if it was R or 18A you could have seen it.

I don't like Micheal Moore, but I think his movies raise some points that need to be thought about. I'll probobley see it in a few months on DVD. It should be interesting.

[gunzgirl85]

I just love the contraversy!!


I want all the public to witness this movie because right now things are very one-sided :mad:

[piper]

I just love the contraversy!!


I want all the public to witness this movie because right now things are very one-sided :mad:

Yes they are very one sided. AGAINST George Dubya and anyone else who leans anywhere right of center.

[condor888000]

Yes they are very one sided. AGAINST George Dubya and anyone else who leans anywhere right of center.

Heck, I lean right of centre and I hate Gerorge Dubya!

[Flashman]

Yeah, I'm going to see it tomorrow night.. last thing I do before staff, I'll post my thoughts on here most likely!

[Wood]

Yes they are very one sided. AGAINST George Dubya and anyone else who leans anywhere right of center.


Not really especially in thr united states, since their center is actually closer to our right wing. I find it funny that some people are so stone set against this movie, this really is the very essence of freedom of speech and perhaps it'll end up being entertaining. In any case I think there are a few more outrageous movies out right now that are a little bit more disturning.

[Chief Hoult]

Michael Moore was on "The Daily Show" last night (sidenote: I love that show, lol). And Jon Stewart asked something to the effect of, "Is this film biased" and Moore said the film was. The 'facts' he presents in the movie are true, but the order in which he presents them, and HOW he presents them reflect his opinions...maybe they're right, maybe they're flawed.

[Scuba_Guy]

This topic has been on EVERY forum board ive been on, so Im simply going to just say that I am excited to see it. It should be really good.

[Earlam]

Heck, I lean right of centre and I hate Gerorge Dubya!

I thought I was the only one!
(Although I wouldn't say 'hate'. More amused by.....)

Just got back from seeing this, actually (with my leftist uncle, of course).

My review:
It's a 2 hour and 10-ish minute rant.
Bowling for Columbine was, debatably, a documentary. I don't think this one is. It's like an anti-Bush infomercial.

He raised some good points, but the thing was handled with all the grace of a guy fencing with a two by four.

I reccomend everyone go see it. But I payed $8.50, and I think I would have much rather waited a couple weeks for the cheap-theatres to get it.

[Dragonrider]

By what i've heard this movie isn't factuially acurate and to take it to heart would be foolish. Bush is a good man and I will not watch a movie that munipulates his words to potray him as this dose.

you honestly believe bush is a good man? And btw the film is accurate.

[GIDuce]

you honestly believe bush is a good man? And btw the film is accurate.
I do beleive he is a good man and yeah my bad, I used a wrong choice of words when i said it wasn't acurate but you must admit this movie is very foolish to take to heart.

[Dragonrider]

take to heart? as in how?

[GIDuce]

To cling on Michel Moore words like he is telling the whole truth, he dosn't mention anything Gorge bush has done to better the US since he's entered office & if you don't mind me asking whats your element and your cadet afilliation?

[Dragonrider]

To cling on Michel Moore words like he is telling the whole truth, he dosn't mention anything Gorge bush has done to better the US since he's entered office & if you don't mind me asking whats your element and your cadet afilliation?

oky dok i am an air cadet and a sgt for 577 grande praire squadron

[Cheryl Tucker]

he dosn't mention anything Gorge bush has done to better the US since he's entered officeAnd what has he done?? Personally... I havent seen Bush do much at all to improve the Almighty US :rolleyes:, unless you consider sending thousands of military personal into a country that he "suspected" of having weapons of mass destruction improving his country. I think not. Personally... it wouldnt surprize me one bit if the US is housing terrorists themselves or having thier own weapons of mass destruction. He has turned the US into a country of war to finish off the mess his father started. Anyways... just my opinion but I hate the guy.

[Dragonrider]

And what has he done?? Personally... I havent seen Bush do much at all to improve the Almighty US :rolleyes:, unless you consider sending thousands of military personal into a country that he "suspected" of having weapons of mass destruction improving his country. I think not. Personally... it wouldnt surprize me one bit if the US is housing terrorists themselves or having thier own weapons of mass destruction. He has turned the US into a country of war to finish off the mess his father started. Anyways... just my opinion but I hate the guy.

if i was prime minister i would send a pretzel gift basket to bush hahaha lol

[Cheryl Tucker]

if i was prime minister i would send a pretzel gift basket to bush hahaha lolLol.. I wouldn't.... I'd send him a bomb. J/K.

[GIDuce]

[QUOTE=C_Tucker_508]... it wouldnt surprize me one bit if the US is housing terrorists themselves or having thier own weapons of mass destruction[QUOTE]
Are you for real? You know thier not housing terrorists and the US has lots of WMD's like there giant stockpile of nuclear weapons

[GIDuce]

if i was prime minister i would send a pretzel gift basket to bush hahaha lol
lol it was funny when he chocked on that prezel the other year and hurt his face

[Cheryl Tucker]

Are you for real? You know thier not housing terrorists.Ok... please prove that and I will change my statement. :rolleyes:

[wb256]

How about we ignore what George Bush has done for the USA and look at what he's done for the Globe?

Global terrorism has become a MASSIVE problem since he took office, only getting worse with each new country the USA occupies. Any progress between Israel and Palestine during Clinton's years is gone. The wars where people were actually asking for the USA's help (Liberia, Sudan, etc) were completely ignored. Genocide was taking place, but instead they intervene where there's oil?

And if it was a question of the USA's national security, why not North Korea? They announced they were making WMD's to use against the USA and they constantly violate no fly zones...but they did NOTHING.

Just dosn't all add up to me.

Anyways, yeah. I find Bush to be quite corrupt. Plus his economic plans help very few, exempting arms manufacterers and oil companies and other extreamly rich people.

So yeah, I guess he has done a lot of good for the USA, if you own an oil company or a missle factory.

[DMCorrigan]

GIDuce, watch the words, please. Your posts about the 'Prime Minister choking and you finding it funny' could be considered offensive. It's not funny when ANYONE chokes and could die from it. That's not funny at all.

[Neo]

Ok, I saw the movie yesterday. I'm self-described Anti-Bush but here's what I thought of the movie.

It was really good, Moore's best movie in my opinion. He called it an "Op/Ed Movie" so he's quite open about it being about getting rid of Bush, he's stated thats the entire reason for the movie.

Secondly, I'd like to discuss something about Bin Laden's family leaving the states after 9/11, if 15 of the 19 hijackers had been from oh let's say Libya, could the Ambassador of Libya, call the White House and arrange to have 23 members of Muammar al-Qadhafi's (leader of Libya) family to leave the country along with several citizens of Libya? Most unlikely.

The movie wasn't about the war, or even 9/11 if you want to get down to it. It's about how George Bush 'stole' the election, and how the last four years have been a stolen presdiency, from which the main objectives have been to aquire Iraqi Oil to further their business interests and make more profits, instead of governing the American people.

Fin.

[RatherBeFlyin]

I definitely would like to go see it and compare it to Bowling for Columbine.

I read in the paper yesterday that there are two brothers (twins, east-indian) that don't like Michael Morre, so they wrote a book called "Michael Moore is a big fat ugly stupid white man" and it was atcually published!

[bos'nbaby]

Ok im seeing this movie on teusday.. i personally think everything he has to say is true.. i mean look at Bowling for Columbine..it was great..

and on the topic of Bush being a good man.. WOW .. NOT.. he killed millions of innocent people..its not Iraq or Afganistan that decided to fly planes into the towers it was a selected group of people in that area.. Its the same thing that is said about someone comming from Germany.. someone says German ..alot of ppl think nazi..NOT TRUE..its only a selected group.. Bush is No Good

[wb256]

Ignoring his foreign wars he's been launching a HUGE war against american citizens. The war on drugs wastes so much money and kills so many.

It's been going on forever and OBVIOUSLY they're losing. Drugs rates haven't been declining any, regardless of how much harsher they make pentalies and how much more $$ they dump into the program.

Any great leader would notice this and do something about it.

[Dragonrider]

GIDuce, watch the words, please. Your posts about the 'Prime Minister choking and you finding it funny' could be considered offensive. It's not funny when ANYONE chokes and could die from it. That's not funny at all.

it was a joke it was meant to be funny and btw air farce thought it was funny , jon stewart thought it was funny, and its the president not the prime minister

[DMCorrigan]

it was a joke it was meant to be funny and btw air farce thought it was funny , jon stewart thought it was funny, and its the president not the prime minister

As a moderator, I have to look out for the ones who DON'T find that sort of thing funny. These guys respect that fact. You should too.

[sic_transit_gloria]

*PHEW* This morning whilst reading this thread, I was worried that most of the people on here would agree that George Bush is a good guy and the movie is dubious or what not. I personally haven't seen it yet, I plan to asap. I have seen "Bowling For Columbine" a couple times though. I think Moore did a really good job at making the president of the NRA look like a fool and a lot of the Americans in the flim too.

I hope he does the same to George Bush, because I'm sick and tired of hearing all this stuff on CNN about the war on Iraq and 'world terrorism' and you know it's all just propoghanda (however you spell it). I don't know, I just want to hear the truth for once, and Moore's documentary supposedly is pretty accurate becauase apparently he's hired professionals to look over the script and such to make sure every single statement is true so no one can take the crediabilty away from it. And anyways, I'm pretty sure he's just trying to get the truth out, and it's about time too.

I mean, you put things to together, like why were Hussien's or Bin Laden's (can't remember who sorry) family flown out of the country before 9/11. And augh.. the whole Enron thing-going bankrupt, you start to think what the heck is really going on!?!? Ha, I don't know.. Oh right, I remember what I was going to say :p.. there's all this talk about the Iraqi's terrorizing the states and that's part of their justifacation for going there.. but what about the sanctions that have been going on in the middle east for a decade?? They want to help make the world a safer place?? What about the stuff going on in Haiti?? Oh right- no oil there. I don't know. I'll shut up now.. oh boy..

[Logan]

Appearently the CBC brought up a lot of the same points as moore's new movie 2 years ago (like the Suadi royal family being allowed to fly out of the country when family of 9/11 victoms couldn't even fly cross country to see if their family was ok) and no one in the US or canada made any note of it.

I wonder why people are saying his facts are wrong when they have been stated by an independant and seperate new organization?

[Ching]

I just got back from seeing this movie with The One and Only Colin Hoult.
It was excellent, in every way, from a filmmaker's perspective.
Excellent sequencing, excellent research, excellent emotional interest, excellent soundtrack, excellent writing, excellent excellent excellent.
I don't have a complaint. OBVIOUSLY, it has a bias, and therefore does not say anything positive about Bush. Would it be even remotely interesting if it said "Yeah, Bush did some questionable stuff, but LOOK! He's a good guy, really, because..."? I think not. Nobody wants to see 2 hours of "This should make you mad, but here's something to calm you down, but hey, here's a shocker!" It's to get you all emotionally charged up, to make you think about more than what is shown on the news.
And it does just that. I loved it, on so many levels. I would watch it again and again. (but not at $9.50 a ticket! :eek: )
And it's not because I'm a left-leaning peace hugger... It's an excellent piece of film, truly deserving of a Palm D'Or.

[Lil Lightnin]

And it's not because I'm a left-leaning peace hugger...

It doesn't hurt though...:p

[Ching]

I won't argue... punk... *shakes fist* :p

[piper]

Well I sorta support Dubya, even if I think he's a wee bit out of control. He has his heart in the right place, and he defended his country, which is the presidents primary job, to defend the US against any and all enemies. Yeah, Iraq was a mistake, he should have waited till Saddam died. Would have been easier. Oh, and Bos'nbaby, Saddam, Quadaffi, Osama bin Ladin etc have killed or have been responsible for many hundreds of thousands more deaths then Bush. The deaths under Bush were those of soldiers, terrorists and accidental civilian deaths, those of the above named dictators/terrorists were murder of innocent civilians. Saddam killed off hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and Quadaffi ordered the bombings of civilian planes (even though he has calmed down some these days). So who is the worst person? There is to much anti-americanism here. We should be more careful for who we pick as friends. Would it please the bleeding hearts if maybye someone with more acceptable standards, like North Korea or Iran, would be better allies for us then the US? The Americans are our allies and partners, it would do good if we would stop thumbing our noses at them (Liberal party where arrrrrrrrrre you?) and maybye realised that we are, have been, and must be friends to ensure the continued economic stability and national security of our country. 3 out of 5 jobs in Canada depend on trade with the US, we have industries that reley on them, and we CANNOT defend N American on our own.

[Ching]

I don't think that anyone here hates the entire US of A. We resent, as a country, being overshadowed by them, and being seen as an enemy purely based on our proximity to the US, and our economic alliance with them.
The only American we specifically dislike, however, is the president. And, if you watch this movie, I don't care how right-winged, Bush-supporting, flag-waving, Moore-hating you are (and I'm not specifically pointing at you, Piper), you'll understand fully.

It's not only about "George Bush Sucks", although that is a common theme throughout the film. It's about "This war, which has supposedly been over for a year, but people are still dying, really really really sucks, and has turned many an American citizen strongly against George Bush"
The war sucks. That's what I took from this film. The war sucks, and it's George Bush's fault that it's going on. My prayers go out to the American people, many of whom have no choice but to fight the Bush fight.
May I add, this film made me cry (almost) No other film does that, except Forrest Gump. :p But in all seriousness, watching the news doesn't bring in the tears. Reading about brutal murders in the newspaper doesn't do it. But this film did. It had shocking humanity and truth to it, like nothing I can describe. Perhaps seeing a woman on screen who actually did receive a telephone call from the US Army, telling her that she actually did lose a son in Iraq brought it out. It wasn't staged. That was real grief, right in front of millions of faces. I genuinely admire her courage. And I pray for her.

[Neo]

Piper, you talk about Qadhafi, yet Bush hasn't invaded Libya... even though they gave up their asperations of WMD, only after Iraq. Nevertheless the support terrorism.

Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were once supported by the United States. Where do you think Hussein got the Chemical Weapons to kill his own people? The United States of course. Where do you think Osama Bin Laden got his training from? The United States, through the CIA.

Just because Canada is an American ally doesn't mean we have to always agree with them. Did Canada support the escalation of the Vietnam War? No. The same applies here. Most in Canada either view the United States as a friend, or perhaps even "brother/sister" of Canada. Do friends and siblings not tell each other when they are making a mistake? We are being more of an ally by telling them we think its wrong, then by just agreeing with them.

The United States may be our biggest trading partner, but we are also their biggest trading partner. Their economy needs us as well. But I feel Canada as a nation needs to lessen its economic dependence on the United States. To quote the Right Honourable John Turner, Prime Minister (Lib.) of Canada "When the economic levers fall, the political ones are soon to follow". We cannot allow our Government policy to be dictated by the government of another country.

We are a soverign and indepent country, and contrary to what some right-wing political parties say, we are respected throughout the world. As underfunded as it is, our military still has respect, because when the CF has a job to do, they do it, and do it well. We have some of the best trained military personnel in the world. According to the CIA World Fact book, our miltiary ranks 15th in the world in terms of military spending.

Back to my main-point about Fahrenheit 9/11, the movie is about how Bush didn't take the United States to war for a just reason. They preached about the Weapons of Mass Destruction in order to make Americans fear Iraq, they created a culture of fear whch was spread by a media hungry for war. Bush didn't take the US to war for WMD, or for the liberation of the Iraqi people (which btw, still hasn't happened), but instead he took the United States to war for Oil. Fahrenheit 9/11 in my opinion does an excellent job on bringing this fact to the forefront of American Culture. Here in Canada, the film serves as a sort of "told you so" to Bush.

Fin.

[Loyal Edmonton]

Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were once supported by the United States. Where do you think Hussein got the Chemical Weapons to kill his own people? .

are you referring to the kurdish massacre in the north? if you are you should realize that saddam at that time was advised by the us that the village was occupied by iranian forces and they decided to target it, so that incident was not intentional

(although i am quite sure he did kill his own people eslewhere but not on purpose in that instance)

[Meathead]

They want to help make the world a safer place?? What about the stuff going on in Haiti?? Oh right- no oil there. I don't know. I'll shut up now.. oh boy..

Wait a minute. I thought there were troops in Haiti. I know there are 500 Canadian Soliders and troops from other countries that include:

Argentina, Benin, Bolivia, Brazil, Chad, Chile, Croatia, France, Jordan, Nepal, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Turkey and Uruguay

[Earlam]

are you referring to the kurdish massacre in the north? if you are you should realize that saddam at that time was advised by the us that the village was occupied by iranian forces and they decided to target it, so that incident was not intentional

(although i am quite sure he did kill his own people eslewhere but not on purpose in that instance)

I think there have been 2 or 3 Kurdish uprisings during Saddam's rule. Never mind the rest of the country's history.
Besides the Kurds, there was also the southern rebellion just after the Gulf War, the secret police, and I'm sure I'm missing an attempted uprising or two.

[Logan]

i believe she was commenting on how the US has stretched its forces so thin with the war in iraq that they're having a hard time sending soldiers elsewhere where they are needed.

on a sub note i read an article a while back that the US has introduced a stop loss policy into it's military which means that if your contract with the military is coming close to ending, ie in the next few months or so, your not getting out, with the stop loss policy they can extend contracts as long as they need and that include reservists on tours, and there are a lot in places like afghanistan, iraq and other places around the world. So if the article I read was right (and it was from a US news paper) then those reservists on tour in iraq can be kept there as longer than their original contract agreed on.

I don’t think any one can agree with that for a war that’s been over for a year and a half.

[bos'nbaby]

Ignoring his foreign wars he's been launching a HUGE war against american citizens. The war on drugs wastes so much money and kills so many.

It's been going on forever and OBVIOUSLY they're losing. Drugs rates haven't been declining any, regardless of how much harsher they make pentalies and how much more $$ they dump into the program.

Any great leader would notice this and do something about it.


HERE HERE!!!! Well said!!! i couldnt agree more

[piper]

What should Dubya do then, about drugs? Instead of just saying 'he should do this' and 'hear hear' why don't you present some viable options (not legalization, that will never and should never happen). Oh, and there are US troops in Haiti as well. And Kosovo. And Bosnia. And the Sinai (I think they are still there). Not just Iraq.

[GIDuce]

Wow! Debating would be a great new competitive activity in cadets.

[wb256]

What should Dubya do then, about drugs? Instead of just saying 'he should do this' and 'hear hear' why don't you present some viable options (not legalization, that will never and should never happen). Oh, and there are US troops in Haiti as well. And Kosovo. And Bosnia. And the Sinai (I think they are still there). Not just Iraq.


Legalization is what should happen. Giving drug addicts permanent criminal records is mistake #1...because there's no hope for rehabilitation. No matter how long someone cleans up their act for, there's still a little piece of paper that says you're a crackhead that all of your future employers will see.

Forcing drugs into the black market is mistake #2. This is pumping $$ into the angels, providing them with the means to distribute drugs on a more widespread scale.

Decriminalization is a definite must for ALL drugs. Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, and it's not working on drugs now.

Obviously drugs would have to be regulated afterwards. This would help create a HUGE decrease in AIDS rates and a huge decrease in OD rates.

Another big step would be to STOP LYING in the anti-drug campaigns. I know so many people who've tried drugs just because they knew the school/government was lying to us about them - they just wanted to know the truth. Maybe if they started telling us the truth and the WHOLE truth things would be better.

Oh, also, providing information about how to safely do drugs would be a huge plus. Information on the safe use of extacy, acid, etc would help avoid so many problems in today's youth. They're clearly doing the drug anyways no matter WHAT the penalty, sowhy not make it safe for them to do so?

[sic_transit_gloria]

Wait a minute. I thought there were troops in Haiti. I know there are 500 Canadian Soliders and troops from other countries that include:

Argentina, Benin, Bolivia, Brazil, Chad, Chile, Croatia, France, Jordan, Nepal, Paraguay, Peru, Portugal, Turkey and Uruguay

Oh no, I'm aware that there are other countries helping the situation over there, but the US isn't.. I don't know.. I was just going on a rant on that post..

[SLt T. Clausen]

Are you for real? You know thier not housing terrorists and the US has lots of WMD's like there giant stockpile of nuclear weapons
No terrorists in the US? How about the CIA? Do you know how many international terrorists in other countries the US has supported if they are furthering their own cause? The US is the number one terrorists state in this world. Anyone who is a supporter of Bush, or any of the recent administrations, ought to read some Naom Chomsky. Specifically Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance. The difference between Moore and Chomsky, is Chomsky is not only considered credible, but also one of the most prominent political writers of our time. Reading his work would give you an entirely new perspective on the US, believe me.

[sic_transit_gloria]

wait.. i never said that!! that's not my quote!!

[DMCorrigan]

GIDuce was the person who said that line, Mister Clausen. Be sure to double check your quotes ^_^

[Logan]

I never said they were just in iraq, but there have been reports released recently by the US DOD saying that they're short of troops to meet their operational requirements, a few months ago they said that they need more troops to be sent to iraq but didn't have them because they were deployed elsewhere, like haiti, afghanistan, and about a couple dozen other countries.

[Insane Power Pilot]

I will only speculate on the film as I still haven't seen it. Haven't been able to download it.

The way I see it...the U.S. went into Iraq largely by itself and was stiffed with the $87 billion tab and hundreds of casualties while the rest of the world preferred to sit on its hands while the Iraqis were being sent into torture chambers and Kurds were being gassed. To those who say the U.S. gave Iraq the chemical weapons...so what? Americans were also responsible for giving the USSR nuclear weapons, and Canada did the same for Pakistan outright. It's not how you get them...it's how you use them. I always did reserve doubts that Iraq did have WMDs but thought they should go in anyway...heck, they should have kept marching right to Baghdad in '91. I think that's how a good chunk of Americans felt.

I was to understand that in this film Moore does a little piece on the deaths of Uday and Qusay Hussein to make one of his points...I saw a little piece on Uday and Qusay on CBC of all places...they were NOT nice people at all, and not worthy of our pity or sympathy.

That's not the only good he's done...I have noticed that Canadians are very short-sighted when it comes to Bush and even the U.S. in general. The U.S. cannot possibly do anything right...it's like playing against a rigged game trying to convince some people. I shall cite the tax cut, which Moore himself immensely benefited from. He could have given the money to charity or struggling filmmakers such as he once was, but he gave it all to the democrats and continues to gouge underfunded universities for $50,000 to hear him speak. The tax cut has also created jobs. Disposable incomes have increased encouraging people to spend more money, which also benefits the economy. I believe his education policy is also working, as is his health care policy because Moore has largely ignored these two. Of course, there's no way I can demonstrate that now since his once informative website with plenty of links to real sources and leftist media has become a huge flaming billboard for his movie.

So he's living in the past about the election results again, huh? Does he mention that the presidencies of Thomas Jefferson, John Q. Adams, Rutherford Hayes, and Benjamin Harrison were also shams? I didn't think so. Such is the nature of the electoral college. Gore may have won the popular vote, but Bush carried 30 states. Essentially, you can win landslides in certain states and lose in nail-biters in certain others, thus causing you to lose the popular vote. We have a system in Canada where the exact same thing could potentially happen, but Moore probably neglects to mention this, instead telling us how the electoral college is the root of all evil.

This really is a catch-22 for me...if the Democrats win the election, Moore will declare it a personal victory on his part, even though the Democrats do tend to campaign from the left and govern from the right. However, if Bush wins, I will have to listen to Moore for another 4 years.

[piper]

I will only speculate on the film as I still haven't seen it. Haven't been able to download it.

The way I see it...the U.S. went into Iraq largely by itself and was stiffed with the $87 billion tab and hundreds of casualties while the rest of the world preferred to sit on its hands while the Iraqis were being sent into torture chambers and Kurds were being gassed. To those who say the U.S. gave Iraq the chemical weapons...so what? Americans were also responsible for giving the USSR nuclear weapons, and Canada did the same for Pakistan outright. It's not how you get them...it's how you use them. I always did reserve doubts that Iraq did have WMDs but thought they should go in anyway...heck, they should have kept marching right to Baghdad in '91. I think that's how a good chunk of Americans felt.

I was to understand that in this film Moore does a little piece on the deaths of Uday and Qusay Hussein to make one of his points...I saw a little piece on Uday and Qusay on CBC of all places...they were NOT nice people at all, and not worthy of our pity or sympathy.

That's not the only good he's done...I have noticed that Canadians are very short-sighted when it comes to Bush and even the U.S. in general. The U.S. cannot possibly do anything right...it's like playing against a rigged game trying to convince some people. I shall cite the tax cut, which Moore himself immensely benefited from. He could have given the money to charity or struggling filmmakers such as he once was, but he gave it all to the democrats and continues to gouge underfunded universities for $50,000 to hear him speak. The tax cut has also created jobs. Disposable incomes have increased encouraging people to spend more money, which also benefits the economy. I believe his education policy is also working, as is his health care policy because Moore has largely ignored these two. Of course, there's no way I can demonstrate that now since his once informative website with plenty of links to real sources and leftist media has become a huge flaming billboard for his movie.

So he's living in the past about the election results again, huh? Does he mention that the presidencies of Thomas Jefferson, John Q. Adams, Rutherford Hayes, and Benjamin Harrison were also shams? I didn't think so. Such is the nature of the electoral college. Gore may have won the popular vote, but Bush carried 30 states. Essentially, you can win landslides in certain states and lose in nail-biters in certain others, thus causing you to lose the popular vote. We have a system in Canada where the exact same thing could potentially happen, but Moore probably neglects to mention this, instead telling us how the electoral college is the root of all evil.

This really is a catch-22 for me...if the Democrats win the election, Moore will declare it a personal victory on his part, even though the Democrats do tend to campaign from the left and govern from the right. However, if Bush wins, I will have to listen to Moore for another 4 years.

Bingo, yes, exactly, and I could not agree more. And seeing as Moore, is horribly biased (like, reallly really biased to the left), you don't always get the full story (you never really do anywhere). So, like everything else, take what little dribble thats worthwhile that he says with a grain of salt. And then forget him (the only movie he as made that is actually telling something is Bowling for Columbine, THATS a good movie). But anything else he has made...

[wb256]

Bingo, yes, exactly, and I could not agree more. And seeing as Moore, is horribly biased (like, reallly really biased to the left), you don't always get the full story (you never really do anywhere). So, like everything else, take what little dribble thats worthwhile that he says with a grain of salt. And then forget him (the only movie he as made that is actually telling something is Bowling for Columbine, THATS a good movie). But anything else he has made...

Have you seen his other movies? I thought they were great.

I LOVED Canadian Bacon!

Roger and Me was good too.