the leninist-marxist communist party of canada thread

[boxerboy50]

this thread is for all of the communist/socialist intellects in this great country of ours. the upcoming election is a very sad time, because every single politicial party is flawed, except the communists. we have a vision, and a plan to make canada the next soviet/communist/socialist utopia.

[Wood]

Go on? aka How?

[piper]

Yes, just look at all those communist success stories...the Soviet Union, North Korea, CUba. Yes, the powers of the world these nations are (or were). Just look how they turned out. (this is sarcasm, by the way).

[M. Ward]

I thought i'd mention that the Soviet Union in it's last days (Stalin and after) wasn't really a Communist State. I beleive the word I was told was Totalorarin. I know I spelt that wrong, but you get the idea.

[Wood]

Yes, just look at all those communist success stories...the Soviet Union, North Korea, CUba. Yes, the powers of the world these nations are (or were). Just look how they turned out. (this is sarcasm, by the way).

Comments like this is why you need to say how.

The cold war has pretty much ruined the idea of a Utopian Socialist nation. Of course Pipper's probably aware that all three of his examples are related and that the soviet Union severely perverted the ideas of socialism and thrust that perversion on the other nations of the day.

[ctjj.stevenson]

Communism is a nice utopian ideology. The only problem is that no state could ever become totally communist because it is against human nature. Communist believe that everyone is equal, however, to quote George Orwell's The Animal Farm: "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." Therefore, someone will become all powerful in a "communist" state, and therefore, the rights of the others will lessen.

[Wood]

I thought i'd mention that the Soviet Union in it's last days (Stalin and after) wasn't really a Communist State. I beleive the word I was told was Totalorarin. I know I spelt that wrong, but you get the idea.

Ya totalitarian, hense the very opposite what socialism is really about.


Communism is a nice utopian ideology. The only problem is that no state could ever become totally communist because it is against human nature. Communist believe that everyone is equal, however, to quote George Orwell's The Animal Farm: "all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others." Therefore, someone will become all powerful in a "communist" state, and therefore, the rights of the others will lessen.

That wasn't the point of the novel, that quote is misused. Animal Farm was meant to show the coruption of the ideas of the Russian Revolution, and how the result wasn't what was intended. George Orwell was a socialist, he did not show that socialism didn't work, he showed that the Soviet Union wasn't truely socialist. If Old Major (Lenin) had survived Animal Farm would have worked.

[piper]

Communism could work, but as history has shown, it is to easy to be corrupted in that system. Same reason facism won't work.

[engineer]

I think Cuba would be a really good country if the Americans stop the blockade. Cuba does have the highest literacy rating in the world.

[piper]

I think Cuba would be a really good country if the Americans stop the blockade. Cuba does have the highest literacy rating in the world.

And bloody good cigars.

[Ching]

And Cuban men. :cool:

[F/Sgt. Steele]

lol, piper.

i remeber when i first fell in love with socialism and it's more extreme brother communism, but then I realized that human nature has a way of ruining things.

So, one could conclude that the way to a more effective govn't would be one of balance; a social democracy. This is due the fact that if you go too far left, people loose their rights and if you go too far right, people loose their walets.

communism could never work unless the parties involved were born into it and knew nothing else. so they would never know freedom and they would treat each other as equals because that is all they've ever known.

if communism/socialism is good for something, it's reafirming the value of rights and freedoms. if i had a choice, i'd have a communist govn't instated every 20 years just to remind people of how precious their rights are. Then, and only then would they stop abusing what we have now.

[DMCorrigan]

Yes, just look at all those communist success stories...the Soviet Union, North Korea, CUba. Yes, the powers of the world these nations are (or were). Just look how they turned out. (this is sarcasm, by the way).

...be nice, Piper... : grins :

-Corrigan

[Wood]

lol, piper.

i remeber when i first fell in love with socialism and it's more extreme brother communism, but then I realized that human nature has a way of ruining things.



Of course what we precieve as "Human Nature" generally isn't human nature as so much as western culture.

[Juice]

I would like to point out that Leninist communism was nowhere near what Karl Marx was hoping for in his communist state. Marxist communism did not call for an overthrow of the existing state, it was waiting for the inevitable fall of capitalism. Following that, history would cease and we would enter into a classless society. That is clearly not the case with Lenin or Stalin's Soviet Union. I just think that the distinction needed to be made, and for accuracy, let's not mix Marx with Lenin, because they had completely different ideas along the same theme.

[HammerOfHope]

I know everybody loves a good pseudointellectual discussion on the flaws and merits of Communism, but we're straying from the original topic. What can the Communist Party of Canada do for me and the country I love?

[Juice]

Of course what we precieve as "Human Nature" generally isn't human nature as so much as western culture.

Yeah, thats true. We tend to get those mixed up. I suppose now since we've been living in Western society for so long, its hard to know what exactly is human nature anymore.

[gunzgirl85]

Communism is a good idea, unless your like me (money hungry capitalist)
but in a communist society you get to pursue what you want without thinking "oh geeze 150 000$ in debt for law school, i might as well forget it"

I think its a good idea for other countries, but Canada is already too capitalist to turn around

and the only reason ppl think communism is bad is because its outlawed in the USA. They are the biggest capitalist nation and any threat to big companies is WRONG :rolleyes:

[Juice]

Communism is a good idea, unless your like me (money hungry capitalist)
but in a communist society you get to pursue what you want without thinking "oh geeze 150 000$ in debt for law school, i might as well forget it"

I think its a good idea for other countries, but Canada is already too capitalist to turn around

and the only reason ppl think communism is bad is because its outlawed in the USA. They are the biggest capitalist nation and any threat to big companies is WRONG :rolleyes:

I have to disagree with that statement. Communism could work in Canada and even the US, but it's just not ready for it yet. Like Marx said, we have to wait for the inevitable fall of capitalism. It might not be there yet, but someday, I think it will be ready. It's not time yet for communism. Patience is the only way it can work.

And to answer your question Antony, I dont think that at this point the Communist PArty could do a whole lot for Canada. People just arent ready to accept communism as a viable economic system, but like I said, one day we will be, and when that time comes, the Communist Party will be there.

[Earlam]

I've read the Communist Party of Canada's platform.
I don't think it makes any sense at all.

They have some nice ideas, but it's the kind of thing a grade 9 class might come up with for 'the ideal society'. It doesn't take reality into account.
Their ideas are completely impractical and unrealistic.
Their platform just doesn't make sense.

Even if I do oppose their views, I might consider respecting them if they would grow up (heck, I even have some respect for Layton, and I disagree with him on just about everything). But until they pull their heads out of their rears and grow up as a party, they're a joke.


Note: Lenin wasn't a great guy himself. Pretty brutal, actually. Marxist-Leninism was always envisioned as a dictatorship. Stalin just took advantage of the system already in place.

[Juice]

As I said before, Marxism and Leninism should not be placed together as being related, they are totally different (sorry if that sounds rude, it's not meant to, it's just a pet peeve of mine :D ), and yes, the Communist Party is lookig for the utopian society, which is really good, but they dont take reality into account, totally agree. It wont work in this day and age, but someday, maybe it will.

[Jiggy]

I actually think communism, well the definition of it, is a good idea. The only problem is that other countries who have "attemted" it have screwed it up.

I am a socialist and I think the NDP would do wonders for Canada.

[hubert]

Yes, just look at all those communist success stories...the Soviet Union, North Korea, CUba. Yes, the powers of the world these nations are (or were). Just look how they turned out. (this is sarcasm, by the way).

or china, which has an economy equivalent to canada X 7

[whalersailore]

Im still surprised there is know fascist thread yet, or maybe I spoke to soon.

[whalersailore]

I actually think communism, well the definition of it, is a good idea. The only problem is that other countries who have "attemted" it have screwed it up.

I am a socialist and I think the NDP would do wonders for Canada.

I might of voted for the NDP if they had a better leader, I know this isnt the US and you vote for the party not the leader but I cant get past it. Honestly, I think there leader looks stupid when ever he tries to make fun of another party, he always has this dum smirk, I know this shouldnt be about image, but his image would be representing Canada, and I dont feel that would be good for our country. PLus the liberals have done good for the past ten years, why not ten more.

[Juice]

I might of voted for the NDP if they had a better leader, I know this isnt the US and you vote for the party not the leader but I cant get past it. Honestly, I think there leader looks stupid when ever he tries to make fun of another party, he always has this dum smirk, I know this shouldnt be about image, but his image would be representing Canada, and I dont feel that would be good for our country. PLus the liberals have done good for the past ten years, why not ten more.

I feel kinda the same way about the Liberal Party. they have a great leader and I hold a lot of respect for Paul Martin, but I cannot stand the Liberal party. I hate what Dalton McGuinty and the liberals did to Ontario with the new budget, and as much as they say they are separate from what McGuinty did, Liberals stick up for each other. I just hold no respect for the Liberals anymore, as much as I respect Paul Martin, the party itself is not who i want to be running this country. Go NDP or Green, whichever wins is fine with me, as long as it's not Libs or Conservatives.

[piper]

I know everybody loves a good pseudointellectual discussion on the flaws and merits of Communism, but we're straying from the original topic. What can the Communist Party of Canada do for me and the country I love?

A whole lot of.......................

[wb256]

This isn't a thread debating communism, it's for communist supporters. The conservatives were nice enough to not bash the libs/NDP in their thread, and the grits were nice enough to leave the conservatives alone in theirs. How about leaving this one alone too?

Anyways, as for the "human nature" debate. Sociologically speaking, much of what we're labelling as "human nature" is taught to us by capitalism. It's social conditioning. If humans were raised in a sharing world, they'd probably be a lot more sharing.

Another issue is the "plague of lazyness" that took over the USSR. This didn't really take over until the 70's when people got fed up with corruption and government incompetance. Until then they were still hardworking forthe cause (for the most part).

Lenin was a brutal leader as well, yes. But then again, we have to look at this in a historical perspecive. At the beginning of the 20th century the world was a very different place and the things he did were far more acceptable (especially coming out of Csarist Russia). He may have been brutal, but he was nothing compared to the regime that existed before his. From his place in the world, he was like Ghandi.

Another MAJOR reason why communism failed was because of the international opposition to a communist movement taking place. If money wasn't wasted on a ridiculous arms race with the USA and other patriotic things (eg, the space race) then things could have turned out FAR differently.

I don't believe that the failure of the so called communist states of the 20th century give any indication that marxism is a failed experiment. NONE of them began in the society that Marx had outlined (a heavily developed capitalist society). Russia was still a backwards agricultural society with no industry developed. SO much effort/resources had to be spent on industrializing the USSR that could have been put to other things. Same goes for Cuba, China, Mongolia, Vietnam, etc. None of them experienced free market capitalism, as they were all colonized to some degree (exempting China, but the "zones of influence had the same economic effect). All of these nations had to somehow make themselves sufficient after years of foreign rule. They fell upon the same problems that the rest of the post colonial world (eg, the entire less developed world) did. The reasons for their failure are much the same as the reasons for poverty in the entire 3rd world, it was economically impossible to keep a communist state alive given the post-colonial conditions and the oil crisis of the 1970's.

[gunzgirl85]

This isn't a thread debating communism, it's for communist supporters. The conservatives were nice enough to not bash the libs/NDP in their thread, and the grits were nice enough to leave the conservatives alone in theirs. How about leaving this one alone too?



Um i think that went out of the window, just go and check the Libs/NDP thread :mad:

But yes most of you are still stating that communism is bad, just because the living examples of them didn't turn out right. Like russia.
We're saying the ideology is right, the examples weren't prefect..but hey which ones are?

[Jiggy]

Go NDP or Green, whichever wins is fine with me, as long as it's not Libs or Conservatives.
I agree, i really want NDP but Green is good too!!!
Just not conservs or libs

[Ching]

There's a whole lot of Leninist-Marxist party signs up in my neighbourhood... I took a walk to the mall, and there were TONS!
Mind you, they weren't your traditional party signs on lawns, but posters taped to lamp posts... but it still shows that there is *some* support for them around here. They're making themselves visible, as well they should.

[Juice]

Im still surprised there is know fascist thread yet, or maybe I spoke to soon.

Sure there is, go check out the Conservative Party thread! :p

[Ching]

Zingg!! :D

[piper]

Sure there is, go check out the Conservative Party thread! :p

And we should also start a 'lets vote back into power a party that we all know is corrupt, arrogant, and been in power to long and who we know will continue to watse our money" thread. Oh wait, there already is a liberal thread. Oops.

[Juice]

And we should also start a 'lets vote back into power a party that we all know is corrupt, arrogant, and been in power to long and who we know will continue to watse our money" thread. Oh wait, there already is a liberal thread. Oops.

I think that can apply to most political parties. Moreso the Liberals and the Conservatives.