High School Grads 2007 - A Warning About University Advertising

[TBird]

If you are in the wonderful position of being in Grade 12 this year and are looking at Universities I would like to lend a word of caution to where you pursue your studies.

Back in my day, 3 years ago ( :biglol: ) in BC you needed about 88% to compete for admittance in the Social Science Faculties at UBC and SFU. Obviously this fluctuated a lot, but that's beside the point.

At Simon Fraser University, where I am a student, they started something called "the 80% Guarantee" where they say (and do) take students who meet the course prereqs with a CGPA of at least 80%.

There is however, a huge downside to this. Students who get accepted with anything below about 90% are not in a terrible situation where their course selection time is so late that they're not even able to register into classes at SFU next semester! Or, if they can, they get into classes that often have little do to with their field of study. Here, it is not until your third semester that your U marks determine (in part) your course selection time.

To put this into perspective, Crse selection runs from 01 Nov to 31 Nov

When I was first year I picked on about 08 Nov... and students that are around the 90% threshold are still there. However, 80% Guarantee students started picking yesturday! My high school CGPA was higher than my U GPA, and I'm an undeclared major and I still got to select on the 16th.

None of this is meant to mean don't come to SFU (or UBC where Ive heard a similar issue exists) but it is important to be aware tat going straight into University may be detrimental - especially if College is easily accessible to you.

[Juice]

It's things like that that make me glad uOttawa makes their registration dates based on academic year, and not university marks.

The first day registration is open to all students going into fourth year. Second day to third year students, third day to second year students, and then after that, it opens up to any new student coming in the fall.

JB

[Andy]

For most well-informed students in vancouver, it's pretty much established that those with higher marks get first shot at courses. Of course, if you're in a specific program, certain courses have seats "set aside" for you, such as Nursing or Business...

But yeah - my friend who's in 2nd year had to wait 'til AFTER some first years in order to even register for some first courses she needed again..

(kind of makes me glad I'm going to a private college next year...)

[WOrldsFinest]

Back in my day, 3 years ago ( :biglol: ) in BC you needed about 88% to compete for admittance in the Social Science Faculties at UBC and SFU. .[/b]

THATS CRAZY!!!!!:wow: :biglol: I'm in Social Sciences at McMaster University, first year, and I definitly only needed min. 75% to get in. I mean UBC is like number 2 in Canada and MAC is like 4th but still were not that far off and i defintly didnt have to work as hard as 88%. That sounds more like MAC Kinesiology to me. With Calculus...GAH hated that course, the rest of my school work, cadets, dance....inside and outside of school, and work 88% was a little out of my reach. I dont even know what my final was but i know it was no more than like 82-83%.

I mean not even Western required 88% and it had the highest admission average out of the universities, I applied for.

WOW thats really something!

[BigGunz]

Yeah, the admission requirements at McGill U are pretty steep...but I should manage well

Unless I choose my cousin's route and go to University of Ottawa.
It all depends on which city I like best. Montreal is definately a vibrant place with a ton of stuff to do. Ottawa seems fun as well, and probably more my type of area. Nice sized city, not as big as Montreal, but big enough to have everything I need

[Kortytoh]

THATS CRAZY!!!!!:wow: :biglol: I'm in Social Sciences at McMaster University, first year, and I definitly only needed min. 75% to get in. I mean UBC is like number 2 in Canada and MAC is like 4th but still were not that far off and i defintly didnt have to work as hard as 88%. That sounds more like MAC Kinesiology to me. With Calculus...GAH hated that course, the rest of my school work, cadets, dance....inside and outside of school, and work 88% was a little out of my reach. I dont even know what my final was but i know it was no more than like 82-83%.

I mean not even Western required 88% and it had the highest admission average out of the universities, I applied for.

WOW thats really something!
You're at Mac? Jigsy.

McMaster Hons. B. Health Sci. and Hons. Arts & Science have an 88% cutoff. That's a minimum, however -- I was well above that and didn't get accepted into Health Sci.

FYI, Mac Kinesiology's nominal cutoff is 84%, but realistically it fluctuates between 83-86%

A little research indicates that UBC has admissions averages comparable to most higher-entrance Ontario universities. Their Arts entrance is a bit higher, Engineering a bit lower, and otherwise it is very similar.

[Kohler51]

It all depends on which city I like best. Montreal is definately a vibrant place with a ton of stuff to do. Ottawa seems fun as well, and probably more my type of area. Nice sized city, not as big as Montreal, but big enough to have everything I need
And if you like to visit the bigger city ever now and then, it's not that expensive to bus there either ($22 something one way, 45 ish roundtrip)

[TBird]

Yeah it is high, but BC Provincials, worth 40% are also extremely easy. There are different standards for out of Province students.

Generally second year students pick after first year students at SFU, in fact always except in the case of scholarships. So, your friend shouldn't have been suprised.

I find a lot of "well informed high school students" have a lot of misinformation because of the glossy U Catalogues which make the world seem much simpler than it is, or poorly run CAPP programmes in the schools. I did a "day in the life" type programmes at Cap College, Kwantlen, UBC, and SFU. It had a lot of effect on my decision; albeit I eventually went with whoever gave me the most $$$ LOL

[Andy]

A large reason for the high-cut off in western universities comes from the influx of local and international students, mostly of asian descent. Their averages in sciences and math rocket them into the 90s as averages among most students...

[TBird]

A large reason for the high-cut off in western universities comes from the influx of local and international students, mostly of asian descent. Their averages in sciences and math rocket them into the 90s as averages among most students...

What? No. Substantiate, and then I can tell you why you're wrong.

[Andy]

well, let me phrase it this way: While the cut off for certain programs (for example, Arts at UBC) is technically relatively low (80%), the average marks to get in end up being higher than that mark due to the fact that many applicants for each program can have marks as high as 88-90%. Which means a fair amount of the transcripts that come into UBC have 90%-95% (for programs like sciences and engineering) or 85%-90% (for arts), even though the "technical cut-off" may be as low as 75%...

[TBird]

That makes sense.

[Andy]

so that's my semi-warning: the technical cut offs may not be high, but the practical get your class cut-offs are pretty darn hard.

[F/Sgt. Steele]

COME TO TRENT MY PRITTIES!

[Kohler51]

COME TO TRENT MY PRITTIES!
I second the motion!:p :dance:

[Gopher]

I recommend Saint Paul for anyone who is interested in Philosophy, Theology, Councilling, and General BA.

As a bonus we can take UofO classes at no extra cost.

[Lt(N) Nancy McAleer]

Yeah it is high, but BC Provincials, worth 40% are also extremely easy. There are different standards for out of Province students.



As a BC high school teacher, I would dispute that comment. Whether or not one finds the provincial exam easy might depend on a person's aptitude for the course or how hard one has studied or how well your teacher has helped you prepare - but most students don't find the provincial exams easy.

Also, once one has completed some college (university transferable college courses, that is) it doesn't generally matter which province you are coming from. I am not sure about direct entry, I would have to check on that one, myself.

Are you implying BC students have it easy, somehow, compared to those from other places? I disagree. I also question the "McLean's poll" rating universities, there is an awful lot that they don't even consider when doing their ratings so to say that one school is "2nd" or "4th" seems nonsensical to me. To be honest, for most people, where you do your undergrad is of little consequence - most schools in Canada are quite reputable. It is my understanding that it is more important to go to a specific school for your graduate studies when you have a greater amount of direct contact with the faculty.

[TBird]

As a BC high school teacher, I would dispute that comment. Whether or not one finds the provincial exam easy might depend on a person's aptitude for the course or how hard one has studied or how well your teacher has helped you prepare - but most students don't find the provincial exams easy.

BC Provincials, are on the whole not difficult. Now we will end up going around in circles speaking on aptitude, course content, individual schools etc. However, when you consider the average marks which are generated, they must not be overly difficult for students to succeed. While I haven't been following them recently when I graduated three years ago averages were in the 65-72% range for most of the courses I was in. That means, students on the whole were doing very well. I assume you are privvy to this information; is it still public? There used to be a wonderful Prov. website with past exams, reports on what was done well and what was not done well, and past averages.


Also, once one has completed some college (university transferable college courses, that is) it doesn't generally matter which province you are coming from. I am not sure about direct entry, I would have to check on that one, myself.

That's correct; it's based on the individual school (or group in cases like Quebec) and how the Transfer Guide dictates which courses are equitable to which at the University level.


Are you implying BC students have it easy, somehow, compared to those from other places? I disagree.

I wasn't. After rereading my post it did come off as that, so to clarify I still think Provincials are easy (or should be easy) for students looking at the DE University route. If you can't score in the mid-80s on a Provincial in BC I think traditional University would be a great challenge. There will always be off-exams and such where one struggles, but also given the liberal rewrite policies in BC this can be overcome in a reasonably short period.


I also question the "McLean's poll" rating universities, there is an awful lot that they don't even consider when doing their ratings so to say that one school is "2nd" or "4th" seems nonsensical to me. To be honest, for most people, where you do your undergrad is of little consequence - most schools in Canada are quite reputable. It is my understanding that it is more important to go to a specific school for your graduate studies when you have a greater amount of direct contact with the faculty.

I agree. What I do like is the "What's Hot / What's Not" Section, and information on fincial aid. Both of these provide more direct insight into a University. Also, when past graduates are surveyed, unless the wholistic opinion is very sharply positive or negative I don't pay much attention as the experience is so amazingly subjective and different from faculty to faculty. Moreover if you asked me on somedays what I think of SFU I would speak very highly of it. Other days I wish it would just go away.

Cheers :armysalute:

[Juice]

I've got a question:

What's the purpose of having students register according to the grades instead of their academic year?

By making those with lower marks, could one not come to the conclusion that the schools are perpetuating those low marks by, in a manner of speaking, forcing students into courses they might not necessarily want because the ones they do want are full? I mean, I can definitely see a difference in my grades between a course I enjoy and a course I don't.

Just a thought.

JB

[TBird]

I've got a question:

What's the purpose of having students register according to the grades instead of their academic year?

By making those with lower marks, could one not come to the conclusion that the schools are perpetuating those low marks by, in a manner of speaking, forcing students into courses they might not necessarily want because the ones they do want are full? I mean, I can definitely see a difference in my grades between a course I enjoy and a course I don't.

Just a thought.

JB

A great thought often echoed in The Peak student newspaper.

At SFU it's a complex system of

CGPA, Major/Programme, Declared Yes/No?, Academic Year, Time at SFU and probably what shade of blue the sky is. Then there's also some special cases including but not limited too:
- BC's Free Seniors Education
- Continuing Studies
- Aboriginal Education Programs
- Scholarships
- Transfer Students first Semester
- International Students.

What joy!

Mine has been all over the map, and my CGPA has been stable for about 4 semesters now.

[DVessey]

For engineering at RMC, we get given our courses every semester. Takes all that nasty 'thinking' and making choices out of things ;)

[Cheryl Tucker]

I will be honest. I am lazy and didnt read this entire thread. So if the topic changed from registration to something else then Im sorry.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that I love St. Thomas Registration process. You can registrar for intersesion, fall and winter all in one go. It is done in march and you can access the courses as of a certain date onwards depending on what year you are. So people going into 4th year get 1st pick (makes sense because they need to finish requirments to graduate) then people going into 3rd and 2nd. When I was going into 1st year I had to fill out a form and mail in my courses and it is first come first serve but I think it has since changed.

[JessieSkellington]

I will be honest. I am lazy and didnt read this entire thread. So if the topic changed from registration to something else then Im sorry.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that I love St. Thomas Registration process. You can registrar for intersesion, fall and winter all in one go. It is done in march and you can access the courses as of a certain date onwards depending on what year you are. So people going into 4th year get 1st pick (makes sense because they need to finish requirments to graduate) then people going into 3rd and 2nd. When I was going into 1st year I had to fill out a form and mail in my courses and it is first come first serve but I think it has since changed.

The only problem with this system is that if you're starting at the university in January, it's nearly impossible to find courses that haven't already been full for months. I started mid-way last year, and while I managed to get into a psych course, a bio course that I needed and an English pre-req (of which there were probably 10 sections), I had the darnedest time just finding a fourth course. I ended up taking Women's Studies. (Eegh.) Finding a fifth course was practically impossible.

[Juice]

The only problem with this system is that if you're starting at the university in January, it's nearly impossible to find courses that haven't already been full for months. I started mid-way last year, and while I managed to get into a psych course, a bio course that I needed and an English pre-req (of which there were probably 10 sections), I had the darnedest time just finding a fourth course. I ended up taking Women's Studies. (Eegh.) Finding a fifth course was practically impossible.
Well, most universities are geared towards students that are starting in September. I like the fact that I only have to register once a year. I wouldn't have liked the idea of having to try and compete to register for courses twice a year.

JB

[F/Sgt. Steele]

quit your bickering and just go to a student centric university like brock or TRENT

[Andy]

Well, most universities are geared towards students that are starting in September. I like the fact that I only have to register once a year. I wouldn't have liked the idea of having to try and compete to register for courses twice a year.

JB

well, at UBC-O, we can select our entire year... but we have the option of make switches as the new semester eases in and people change their mind.