The Masterbandsman Badge

[neilmc1234]

Whats the deal with the masterbandsman badge??? can sea cadets wear it or not. Because at camp i saw people from Undaunted wearing it but no other corps???????????????? SO I WANT TO KNOW, WHATS THE DEAL.

[Lt(N) R. Molitor]

Whats the deal with the masterbandsman badge??? can sea cadets wear it or not. Because at camp i saw people from Undaunted wearing it but no other corps???????????????? SO I WANT TO KNOW, WHATS THE DEAL.


As far as I know this badge is no longer wearable. It is not apart of the cadet movement which may be unfortunate but thats they way it goes.

[Flashman]

Cadets cannot wear the masterbandsmen badge because it is no longer within the list of "Appointment or Qualification" badges. I don't know why it was removed, but it was. It'd be like any gunner or any sailor wearing either the GI or SI badges, unacceptable, because they don't exist any more.

[GoGunz]

Along with many other badges, it isn't in existance. I would love to get my levels and wear it, I really would, but it doesn't exist. If I was qualified as a submariner, would I be able to wear the cadet submariner badge? Same deal.

[sailorbrat22]

Whats the deal with the masterbandsman badge??? can sea cadets wear it or not. Because at camp i saw people from Undaunted wearing it but no other corps???????????????? SO I WANT TO KNOW, WHATS THE DEAL.

The reason why there are 3 people in my band that wear the master bandsman badge is that they were the three last people to earn them before they stopped giving them out, they have certificated saying that they were the last to earn them and they are allowed to wear them. Anyone who gets level five after that certian date cannot wear the badge...

[Sea Training]

I would like to know the dates, and where they undertook the training, please.

[Lt(N) Jean Cyr]

I would like to know the dates, and where they undertook the training, please.


Me too :)

J

[SLt_Siwak]

The reason why there are 3 people in my band that wear the master bandsman badge is that they were the three last people to earn them before they stopped giving them out, they have certificated saying that they were the last to earn them and they are allowed to wear them. Anyone who gets level five after that certian date cannot wear the badge...

Not To Sound Snotty Or Anything, Whats The Point In Getting Our Level Five, If We Can't Wear The Badge? It'll Look Like We Only Got Our Level 4.

[whalersailore]

Not To Sound Snotty Or Anything, Whats The Point In Getting Our Level Five, If We Can't Wear The Badge? It'll Look Like We Only Got Our Level 4.
no it looks like 5, see 4 horizontal lines means level 4 but five horizontal lines means level 5, see its really a simple consept

[whalersailore]

The reason why there are 3 people in my band that wear the master bandsman badge is that they were the three last people to earn them before they stopped giving them out, they have certificated saying that they were the last to earn them and they are allowed to wear them. Anyone who gets level five after that certian date cannot wear the badge...

There were several people in our band who earned there master bandsman badge, but they were not allowed to wear them because that is what’s specified in CATO’s. The process of the change was not suppose to be gradual but instantaneous. Rules change for a reason and no body should feel there above them.

[BandBabe118]

I was just wondering because this seems to have some relevance in this topic... I herd that if your a bandsman by trade you can't wear a music level for your profficiency... is that true?

BL

[Lt(N) Jean Cyr]

I was just wondering because this seems to have some relevance in this topic... I herd that if your a bandsman by trade you can't wear a music level for your profficiency... is that true?

BL


Not true...but it would look odd :)

You can wear both badges....odd....and I'm trying to get it changed ;)

J

[BandBabe118]

are you trying to get everything changed????

It's ok I quite enjoy having my WSII on there because it took me so long to get it:)...3 years for my WSII and 4 years to get part of my WSIII finished. Maybe by the time I age out I'll finish my WSIII!

BL

[Chief Hoult]

For the comment that it only looks like you have your level 4....In order to pass TG3 (under the old system, unless the standards have since changed?) you only need your level 3....And once you finish your TG3, whether you have your level 3, 4, or 5, you wear the 3 pip underneath the Band Trade Badge....

It's like how in Sail, you only need your Bronze IV to pass TG2, but what about those who earn their Bronze V? What about people who earn their Silver VI, but only wear the TG3 badge?

The pip under your trade badge is reflective that you have met the minimal standard for your course, but not necessarily the maximum.

CH

[Lt(N) R. Molitor]

I herd that if your a bandsman by trade you can't wear a music level for your profficiency... is that true?

BL


There is nothing that says this but I encourage the cadets at my unit not to do this. Show off the other skills that you have. If you have a trade badge then it is assumed that you have certain levels that would go with that. The only time I ask a cadet if maybe they should switch this is if they get their level 4, and especailly their level 5. Thoes levels represent a lot of work and they should take pride in them and since, as we have been discussing, there isn't a badge that adequatly represents that work they should show it off.

For music level 1, 2 or 3 I have to agree that it looks strange to where the proficiency badge and the Trade badge... just my opinion

[Chief Hoult]

I agree that those who go above and beyond the required standard should be proud to wear the proficiency. I was lucky enough as a MedA to not have two sailboats on one arm :)

[SLt_Siwak]

first of all, You only need ur playing level 3 to pass trade group three. and you need your theory level 3 too.
second off, uhm...Yes you can wear ur trade group, and level badge, its what all the musicians @ Qu'Appelle Do, cuz it looks hot. lol. well we think so. :cool:
and last but not least...uhm...i forget what i was gonna say...about the masterbandsman badge...OH! I was gonna say that, no I mean, seeing as we can't wear our Masterbandsman Badge, it will look like we only have our four, if we do get our Level 5...but can't wear the badge? I think its bloody stupid. Honestly, take level 5 out, or let us wear our freaking badges...As We Know, I dedicate my life 2 Music. not just cadet music, but mostly cadet music. lol. but yea, I'm strongly behind taking the level out with the badge, or bringing the badge back.

[Chief Hoult]

Back up.

So as opposed to not being able to wear a badge, BUT, being given the opportunity to work to a higher standard...you wouldn't work, because you wouldn't get the badge?

Think about how Sail Inst's feel....we have internationally recognized certification as Canadian Yachting Association Instructors...but we can't wear the Sail Instructor Badge...

I don't think I've ever heard a sailor say that they won't take their Green Inst, because heck, they can't wear the badge, so why have it?

So why should you get your level 5?

--> Increase chances for staff (and higher positions I'm told)
--> Personal development (why stop if you don't have to?)
--> Makes you more knowledgable, and in turn, helps your cadets

It's a badge :) And I know where you're coming from...I love the shiny stuff in cadets too, lol

CH

[Conquistador]

Just to clarify a few things:

1) No such thing ever as a 'master bandsman'. It's always been 'Level V Musician'... 'Master Bandsman' is a slang term.

2) No such thing ever (at least not the one people refer to... don't know if there is one if you go way back) as a 'Master Bandsman' badge. There could not exist a badge that recognized something that did not exist. It's the MUSIC INSTRUCTOR badge... always had been. Like the Sail Instructor and Gunnery Instructor badge, it has become obsolete because the course no longer exists.

3) There cannot possibly be someone who legitimately earned a Music Instructor badge left in the cadet system. Last one to remain in the cadet systemd and finished the Music I-V course, which would allow one to wear the MI badge should one completel level V, is former cadet CPO1 Sonya Purewal, and she's a ASLt now! She's been out of cadets for 2 years!

So please, cut this talk about the 'Master Bandsman' badge... it's been swept into the dust bins of history.

(and being a level V musician myself, I know the badge looks snazzy... but it's wrong.)

[Conquistador]

--> Increase chances for staff (and higher positions I'm told)


CH

While getting a higher level does not officially increase one's chances for getting hired, there are positions at QUADRA at least that require levels beyond level 3, which is the minimum requirement. Senior Music Instructor, for example, requires a minimum level of IV... while the chief of music, the most senior staff cadet position, requires level V music.

[Lt(N) AM Chan]

Just to clarify a few things:

1) No such thing ever as a 'master bandsman'. It's always been 'Level V Musician'... 'Master Bandsman' is a slang term.


True, I agree.



2) No such thing ever (at least not the one people refer to... don't know if there is one if you go way back) as a 'Master Bandsman' badge. There could not exist a badge that recognized something that did not exist. It's the MUSIC INSTRUCTOR badge... always had been. Like the Sail Instructor and Gunnery Instructor badge, it has become obsolete because the course no longer exists.


True, now that the Trade Group system is in place, the old system (Music 1-5) is no longer in place. HOWEVER, there was never a Music Instructor Course for Sea Cadets. The OLD, OLD, OLD Cadet Level System (circa 1980-1995) had a Level 5, then 2 subsequent levels that would qualify a Cadet to be a Music Instructor. In fact, Sea, Army and Air Cadets all had the same badge (aka Master Bandsman badge) that would have a 1 or 2 pip underneath it.

These Instructor levels covered conducting, rehearsal techniques, music history, advanced theory, advanced maintenance and advanced ear training. I got my level 1-3 through the OLD, OLD system.



3) There cannot possibly be someone who legitimately earned a Music Instructor badge left in the cadet system. Last one to remain in the cadet systemd and finished the Music I-V course, which would allow one to wear the MI badge should one completel level V, is former cadet CPO1 Sonya Purewal, and she's a ASLt now! She's been out of cadets for 2 years!


Actually, to be honest, A/SLt Purewal completed her Level 5 under the TG system. She was in the TG 3 Band at HMCS Quadra in 1999, when I was the TG 1 Officer. The last person that I knew of that officially got it in the old system is CI Jaymi Daniels, as she got hers on Music 1-5 in 1998.



So please, cut this talk about the 'Master Bandsman' badge... it's been swept into the dust bins of history.

(and being a level V musician myself, I know the badge looks snazzy... but it's wrong.)

Yes, it is snazzy. Being a former double level 5 cadet myself, the 'not so snazzy' Air Cadet Music Instructor badge wasn't so cool....hee hee...

[neilmc1234]

Just out of curiosity how come they did take those badges away eg. masterbandsman, SI and GI :)

[neilmc1234]

The reason why there are 3 people in my band that wear the master bandsman badge is that they were the three last people to earn them before they stopped giving them out, they have certificated saying that they were the last to earn them and they are allowed to wear them. Anyone who gets level five after that certian date cannot wear the badge...


Thats not true, because last summer at Qu'appelle they gave out 1 masterbandsman badge. So either qu'appelle is wrong or they still do give them out :confused:

[Chief Hoult]

The system changed :) We brought in the trade group system. :)

[BandBabe118]

at Acadia they gave out GI badges and they call their Gunz TGIIs GIs:(

BL

[Lt(N) AM Chan]

Thats not true, because last summer at Qu'appelle they gave out 1 masterbandsman badge. So either qu'appelle is wrong or they still do give them out :confused:

The Cadet Music Instructor, Gunnery Instructor and Sail Instructor Badges are 'illegal' to wear for Sea Cadets since those courses/qualifications no long exist. If another Summer Training Centre is still giving them out, they aren't following by Dress Regulations on the badges.

I have also seen an...well...interesting way of showing that a cadet went on Music TG 3 - Level 4/5. A Music Trade Badge with a 4 pip underneath it? That is wrong in so many ways. As an Youth Organization, we need to align everything nationally and stick to it!

[DMCorrigan]

On the flipside, for the air cadets that are on here, the Cadet Music Instructor badge remains legal in two ways:

1) The 'old' rule as of pre-this year was people with Level V musicians and a 6-week band comp could wear the MI badge. Most squadrons have allowed their MIs under this rule to retain their badge.

2) The 'new' rule as of this year is that the MI badge is a qualification for those who go to 6-week Musician Levels 4-5 at Penhold.

[Hadj]

at Acadia they gave out GI badges and they call their Gunz TGIIs GIs:(

BL

EXUSE ME,

but I do not belive you are correct. Perhaps you should check your information before posting such an incorrect rumor. No Acadia DOES NOT give out that bagde and we call them the GUNNERS not the GI's.

[Chief Hoult]

Maybe it was the Course Cadets or some Gunz Staff Cadets doing it...Britt-Lynn was on Band TG2 there, so I'd say her information may be somewhat accurate (Yes, I see that you were CPO Band..). It's a large camp. Course Cadets talk, and maybe a rogue staff cadet did give out a GI Badge.

CH

[Whiff]

at Acadia they gave out GI badges and they call their Gunz TGIIs GIs:(

BL

No they don't!

[Whiff]

Maybe it was the Course Cadets or some Gunz Staff Cadets doing it...Britt-Lynn was on Band TG2 there, so I'd say her information may be somewhat accurate (Yes, I see that you were CPO Band..). It's a large camp. Course Cadets talk, and maybe a rogue staff cadet did give out a GI Badge.

CH

They gave out GI badges once...that was back in 1997, the first year for Gunnery TG1, and they never had any Gunnery badges yet. But every year after it was the Gunnery Trade Badge. :)

[Lt(N) AM Chan]

On the flipside, for the air cadets that are on here, the Cadet Music Instructor badge remains legal in two ways:

1) The 'old' rule as of pre-this year was people with Level V musicians and a 6-week band comp could wear the MI badge. Most squadrons have allowed their MIs under this rule to retain their badge.

2) The 'new' rule as of this year is that the MI badge is a qualification for those who go to 6-week Musician Levels 4-5 at Penhold.

True, but the Instructor Badge that we speak of (Lyre in the Middle, with Maple Leaf wreath around it and crown at the top) was in effect for all Cadets (Sea, Army and Air) with the same design, when the uniforms were green. Since the uniforms changed, so did the badges. For Sea Cadets, the same badge was used for Level 5 musicians, up till 1998. Air Cadets got a replacement of the badge (now the octagon with the Lyre in the middle and a laurel wreath around it) and I'm not sure what the Army Cadets now have as a Instructor Badge.

[gunzgirl85]

They gave out GI badges once...that was back in 1997, the first year for Gunnery TG1, and they never had any Gunnery badges yet. But every year after it was the Gunnery Trade Badge. :)
exacly!
i got a GI badge cause my corps hadn't gotten the "new" ones yet. But im sneaky and i put it back on after i did tg3..so shoot me i only have 2 months left!

we are called Gunners thank you...the GI thing is only during colors, because thats how the orders are written out, they haven't been changed. And i was typing them last year, i don't think they will be changed.
Using the words "gunner's fall in" is going to be rather confusing, since there are many gunnery cadets on parade. This way the "GI" part is less confusing. we know and they know who we are. :D

Now about this trade and proficiency badge thing. In our area it is not allowed to wear both sail or both band.
I think its rather silly, since a tg3 sailor and a level 5 does not mean the same thing! You can pass band with a level 3, but what if you have higher? i think you should be able to display your accomplishments! since a trade group and a level do not necessarily go hand in hand.

[sailorbrat22]

I didnt mean to start a huge arguement, I dont know all the details (I'm a sailor in the band) but I do know they were presented some certificate saying that they were the last to be able to wear the badge in prairie region....and they got their levels not last summer, but the summer before

[SLt_Siwak]

k, I don't know how gunnery got into this, or what it has 2 do with a masterbandsman badge or whatever, but okay. Second Of All, Nobody got their Level 5 @ Qu'Appelle Last Year. Lilje Failed it. so Did Flette. sooo....yeah. and...uhm....i forget.

[Chief Hoult]

The GI/SI badge got brought into the debate because they are cool looking badges that people continued to wear incorrectly, simply because they 'looked cool' or felt that they 'earned them'. Hence why they got into this.

CH

[sailorbrat22]

k, I don't know how gunnery got into this, or what it has 2 do with a masterbandsman badge or whatever, but okay. Second Of All, Nobody got their Level 5 @ Qu'Appelle Last Year. Lilje Failed it. so Did Flette. sooo....yeah. and...uhm....i forget.

Flett did get it in the end.....she passed it at the end of the summer...well thats whay i thought....People got their level 5 NOT LAST SUMMER....BUT THE ONE BEFORE!....just to clear it up...

[jhunter]

and maybe a rogue staff cadet did give out a GI Badge.

Ah yes, the venerable order of shaft cadets...or what-ever you call them nowadays. A select few, that have achieved excellence in their training and have been called to instruct or otherwise work in the employment of cadets, and learn that sometimes orders come down for good reason, and sometimes orders come down to annoy you.

For example: Wear a PFD when near water. Good order, probably prevents drowning, or maybe plantars wart.

Another example: Don't wear the same TG bage as your proficiency. Lets see...the proficiency tells you what level is achieved, the trae badge shows which course was last completed. They aren't the "same" badge, so what, oh what could be the reasoning behind such a thing. Oh yes, to annoy us as 50% of all cadets will wear their trade badge, and the other half, a proficiency badge, when they all take the same course.

[BandBabe118]

The PFD one is a good thing cause without it I'm sure I'd have already drowned!

BL

[neilmc1234]

k, I don't know how gunnery got into this, or what it has 2 do with a masterbandsman badge or whatever, but okay. Second Of All, Nobody got their Level 5 @ Qu'Appelle Last Year. Lilje Failed it. so Did Flette. sooo....yeah. and...uhm....i forget.


Flette did pass last summer because when we were getting our sweaters after final grad they gave her the actual badge infront of the band hall on the stairs.

[Chief Hoult]

The Masterbandsman Badge?

CH

[Harrison Baycroft]

The reason why there are 3 people in my band that wear the master bandsman badge is that they were the three last people to earn them before they stopped giving them out, they have certificated saying that they were the last to earn them and they are allowed to wear them. Anyone who gets level five after that certian date cannot wear the badge...

if i get my five mr lilje would flare one for me and id wear it too and i dont think graham cox or chris jette have any cirtificate or i would have seen it.

[Chief Hoult]

I don't see why you'd wear it....you didn't earn it (not saying you didn't earn your V, on the contrary, I bet you're quite a talented musician...but fact stands, you can't earn it, because the badge isn't allowed to be awarded anymore)

[Superflip754]

tsk tsk tsk....as much as i want the badge i can't have it and neither can any of us. the point is if you get your level five be proud. its something that other ppl can attain, though not many ppl get it. A badge is a badge but every bandsman out there...I FEEL YOUR PAIN.

JD

[Lt(N) R. Molitor]

WEll I think we are all forgetting one thing here. THere is no MasterBandsmen badge. There for there is no way for you to qualify for this badge, and therefore no reason for you to wear it. If I saw a cadet wearing this badge I would inform them that they are wearing an unauthorized badge and have them remove it.

Now that being said... if you get your level V and you happen to have, someway somehow, a badge given to you (virtually impossible since they don't make the badge any more) I am not saying you can't take pride in what that means. Find an alternative way to display that. Wear it under your white top or sew it on the inside of your tunic. You know it is there and you know what it means. Is it worth breaking regulations over??

[Chief Hoult]

I have a black FMP and I had one of the large clip board ones.

Both are sporting an SI badge on them. I like it because it's a rare badge, and I have the same equivilent. But as I'm not authorized to wear it on my tunic, it goes on my FMP, not part of my uniform :)

CH

[Conquistador]

if i get my five mr lilje would flare one for me and id wear it too and i dont think graham cox or chris jette have any cirtificate or i would have seen it.

Why don't you tack on a GI badge too? I mean, you do deserve both equally (ie. you don't deserve either whatsoever... since they're both 'contraband'.)

[Harrison Baycroft]

Why don't you tack on a GI badge too? I mean, you do deserve both equally (ie. you don't deserve either whatsoever... since they're both 'contraband'.)

because im not a GI but i am a master bandsman or masterbandsperson. i am very proficient at what i do in the band. i even have an award to prove it. but i cant wear a plack on my sleev now can i.
:)

[Chief Hoult]

No, you're not a Masterbandsmen :)

I don't doubt that you're proficient, I don't doubt it at all. I bet you're a better musician than I'll ever be (not that that is truly a difficult task).

I'm a Sail Instructor, I have the certificate that says it too. Not just a cadet one, but one signed by the Technical Director of the Canadian Yachting Assoication, I even get a little card too.

BUT I can't wear a Sail Instructor Badge...how do you think I feel? ;)

[Harrison Baycroft]

yeah but if i get my five at camp and the officer whos the head of band thier gives me a master bandsman badge to put on my uniform would it still be wrong to do it?

[Conquistador]

yeah but if i get my five at camp and the officer whos the head of band thier gives me a master bandsman badge to put on my uniform would it still be wrong to do it?

Yes it'd still be wrong... unless your music course officer happens to be a Colonel or Captain (N)... or higher. If not, then the Director of Cadets (whomever it might be at this moment) outranks your music course officer, and hence your music course officer must follow the orders of the director of cadets, which is such that the Music Instrutor badge is to be phased out as it no longer reflects the current training program available at Sea Cadet Summer Training Centers.

PS I got a MI badge from my CO, who's a LCdr... although with the explicit instruction that I am not to wear the badge on my uniform. Just because you have it does not mean you can wear it.

[DMCorrigan]

Mister Baycroft, it comes down to the CATOs once more. They say you're not allowed. Therefore, you're not allowed.

[Harrison Baycroft]

well how come he gives them out then?

[DMCorrigan]

That is a very good question, my friend.

Either way, he is incorrect. The "Master Bandsman" badge shall not be worn on the uniform due to CATO changes a couple of years back.

[Bando Commando]

Ok, I'll say this again.

I have both. In theory, I am qualified to wear both. I was once a drum major, and attained my Level 5/3/1 (btw, having a level V qualifies you to teach on that instrument up to level Basic....maybe 1 but I could be wrong) To be called a Master Bandsman, you must have a level V on your primary, Level III on a secondary, and Level I on a tertiary. I have Level V Trumpet, Level III Percussion and Level I Alto Sax. Can I call myself an official Master Bandsman? No.

If you want to be a TRUE Master Bandsman, and have EVERY SINGLE RIGHT to wear the badge, you have to:

-invent a time machine
-travel back to 1996
-get your level V then

Then and ONLY then would you be allowed to wear the badge.

[Chief Hoult]

well how come he gives them out then?

You'd have to ask him ;)

Some people give out badges because they think they look cool, and want things back to 'the way they were'.

Policies change. Some people just don't like to beleive them ;)

CH

[Conquistador]

Ok, I'll say this again.

(btw, having a level V qualifies you to teach on that instrument up to level Basic....maybe 1 but I could be wrong) .

Having Level V means you can teach up to any level (provided the camp/corps music officers have no qualms with it)... but you can only TEST up to level basic. You can test up to level I if you have TWO level V's (and no, a level V in alto sax and another 'V' in tenor sax does NOT count as two level V's... must be two different instruments).

[Lt(N) R. Molitor]

Having Level V means you can teach up to any level (provided the camp/corps music officers have no qualms with it)... but you can only TEST up to level basic. You can test up to level I if you have TWO level V's (and no, a level V in alto sax and another 'V' in tenor sax does NOT count as two level V's... must be two different instruments).


Almost right... having your Lvl V means you can test up to level basic. There is no provision if you have 2 or more lvl V's. If you are a cadet, basic is the highest level you can test. However as far as instruction goes you can instruct on any instrument but having a lvl V doesn't mean you know the other instruments. Some things do carry over but there are little details that are important to every instrument.

[Conquistador]

Almost right... having your Lvl V means you can test up to level basic. There is no provision if you have 2 or more lvl V's. If you are a cadet, basic is the highest level you can test. However as far as instruction goes you can instruct on any instrument but having a lvl V doesn't mean you know the other instruments. Some things do carry over but there are little details that are important to every instrument.

I stand corrected.

[Bos'n101]

I honestly can't see an issue here, let alone 3 pages of posts! The badge is gone! You can't earn it because its gone! And my advance response to the inevitable retort that will come, NO! Its gone! Wear your little 5 badge and be happy!

[DMCorrigan]

Aye, there is no "what if"s to this. There is no viable 'master bandsman' badge. It doesn't exist any more. Stop worrying about it.

[Conquistador]

I honestly can't see an issue here, let alone 3 pages of posts! The badge is gone! You can't earn it because its gone! And my advance response to the inevitable retort that will come, NO! Its gone! Wear your little 5 badge and be happy!

There really is no issue... this debate has been perpetuated for as long as I can remember in my cadet career. People just refuse to change and cling on to dying 'traditions' that are obsolete.

[neilmc1234]

Yes it'd still be wrong... unless your music course officer happens to be a Colonel or Captain (N)... or higher. If not, then the Director of Cadets (whomever it might be at this moment) outranks your music course officer, and hence your music course officer must follow the orders of the director of cadets, which is such that the Music Instrutor badge is to be phased out as it no longer reflects the current training program available at Sea Cadet Summer Training Centers.

PS I got a MI badge from my CO, who's a LCdr... although with the explicit instruction that I am not to wear the badge on my uniform. Just because you have it does not mean you can wear it.

ITS FUNNY BECAUSE IF IM NOT WRONG FOR YOUR MASTERBANDSMAN AT HMCS QU'APELLE THE TAPE WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR TEST IS SENT TO CAPTAIN CANN AND HE DECIDES IF YOU PASS OR FAIL

[Bos'n101]

And what colour is the uniform of this Captain? I notice you didn't put the little (N) next to it. If its green or blue, then the rank is equal to Lt(N)

[Lt(N) Jean Cyr]

ITS FUNNY BECAUSE IF IM NOT WRONG FOR YOUR MASTERBANDSMAN AT HMCS QU'APELLE THE TAPE WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR TEST IS SENT TO CAPTAIN CANN AND HE DECIDES IF YOU PASS OR FAIL


Tell you what...I'll see your CAPTAIN CANN and raise you one Lt(N) McKay, my counterpart at RCSU Prairie and see what she says regarding the now obsolete Masterbandsman Badge being issued at one of HER CSTCs.

I'll cut and paste my email here.

J

[DMCorrigan]

ITS FUNNY BECAUSE IF IM NOT WRONG FOR YOUR MASTERBANDSMAN AT HMCS QU'APELLE THE TAPE WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR TEST IS SENT TO CAPTAIN CANN AND HE DECIDES IF YOU PASS OR FAIL

It's not necessary to yell. Calm down.

[SLt_Siwak]

K well, now that we've clarified theres NO Masterbandsman badge anymore, i'd have 2 agree with Hutchinson on this one...theres no point in arguing your point anymore Neil. (I went 2 camp with u, didnt i?)...

[Bando Commando]

ITS GONE! YOU CANNOT HAVE IT! The dream is dead. Let it go.

Do you realise what I would've had on my uniform had the badges been allowed?

On my right, Master Bandsman, Advanced First Aid, BIG Drum Major and PL
On my chest, Cadet Submariner.

All of the above, with the exception of Advanced First Aid (I think) ARE NOT ALLOWED!!! Why? BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST!

Just drop it!

Why do you need a piece of fabric to tell you you're good?

If you were ANY kind of musician, you would know that Music comes from the heart...not the arm.

[ArmyBoatswain]

On my right, Master Bandsman, Advanced First Aid, BIG Drum Major and PL
On my chest, Cadet Submariner.


PL? How'd you manage to get PL? That course has been gone since before you were a cadet, lol... I'm jealous now, lol!

[Lt(N) R. Molitor]

...I'll see your CAPTAIN CANN and raise you one Lt(N) McKay


hmm i'd love to get into this.. but I am only an ASLt... too rich for me... :D

anyways..

lets just end this... there is nothing to discuss really. There is no badge any more.. the training is changed... and i don't see it going back. So lets get to what is really important and that is being the best musicians, and cadets, we can be and follow directives and make excellent music.

See you all this summer at Quadra with the Sr. Band

[Bando Commando]

PL? How'd you manage to get PL? That course has been gone since before you were a cadet, lol... I'm jealous now, lol!


NONONONONO....I don't have them...wish I did.... :(
but the point is they are courses that don't exist anymore (believe it or not, RCSC did have a Submariner program at one time...apparently it was offered at the Q) and if courses like that were still around, for sure I would take them.

But they don't. It sucks to be me. :(

Yeah. Let it die. Give the badge its last moments of glory, and let her fade into the sunset.


http://a.domaindlx.com/navyleagueforums/mb_remembrance.jpg

Scanned and made by me. :)

[DMCorrigan]

Let it die...
:P

*has the firing squad shoot it once for good measure*

[jhunter]

The sad fact of the matter is that the badge (no matter how cool it is) has no place in todays cadet system. The SI badge, the GI badge, and the "Masterbandsman" Badge are obsolite. However, count your lucky stars that you have one, and you were presented it by an Officer.

The Sea Cadets is an institution steeped in tradition. For instance, its an unwritten rule that the first cadet to salute a newly commissioned officer is to be presented a silver dollar. It may not be followed everywhere, it may not be written down, and there's no way to force an officer to buy a silver dollar when they are expecting to be commissioned and present it latter, but it does happen. Just like, perhaps, music types will be passing out replica Masterbandsman badges to those that get the highest achievement in music, well after existing stores of the badge are gone.

[Chief Hoult]

Silver Dollar thing happens quite a bit in the Reg Force as well, I'm told...

CH

[ArmyBoatswain]

NONONONONO....I don't have them...wish I did.... :(
but the point is they are courses that don't exist anymore (believe it or not, RCSC did have a Submariner program at one time...apparently it was offered at the Q) and if courses like that were still around, for sure I would take them.

But they don't. It sucks to be me. :(


Oh, ok I thought you had the badge, lol... I was like " that lucky little..." lol

[Bos'n101]

I have one, didn't earn it, of course. It was given to me by someone who was lucky enough to attend the very last PL course because I was always asking him about it, and I wasn't so lucky as to have been around to see the course.

[Chief Hoult]

I have the Cadet Submariner Badge :)

CH

[Bos'n101]

Sweetness! Slt Urbanoski was going to send me one a while back, but she's been busy, so I guess she forgot. oh well.

[SLt_Siwak]

I have one, didn't earn it, of course. It was given to me by someone who was lucky enough to attend the very last PL course because I was always asking him about it, and I wasn't so lucky as to have been around to see the course.

Hey Peter, U love me, you wanna hook me up with it??

[Bos'n101]

haha... NO!

[thongdealer]

I have the Cadet Submariner Badge :)

CH
i have the sea cadet sail makers badge....that thing is HUGE :eek:

[Bando Commando]

I want this Submariner's badge.

...or at least a picture. :)

[Chief Hoult]

Mine's at home in ON. I'll webcam a pic of it when I get home

[Juice]

PL? How'd you manage to get PL? That course has been gone since before you were a cadet, lol... I'm jealous now, lol!

Muahahahaha! I have PL, JL, PL and JL with staff, and MAster Bandsman. I know they are obsolete, and would never have put them on a uniform or told anyone else that its cool to put them on your uniform, but they are still cool to have.

[SLt T. Clausen]

On the flipside, for the air cadets that are on here, the Cadet Music Instructor badge remains legal in two ways:

1) The 'old' rule as of pre-this year was people with Level V musicians and a 6-week band comp [sic] could wear the MI badge. Most squadrons have allowed their MIs under this rule to retain their badge.

2) The 'new' rule as of this year is that the MI badge is a qualification for those who go to 6-week Musician Levels 4-5 at Penhold.I'd love to see the old CATOs that regard to this. I personally haven't read them, and I know you haven't either. I wouldn't be spreading about "word of mouth" CATOs. They invariably turn out to be incorrect. And Musician 4-5 isn't only at Penhold, either. Also, cadets who complete P&D 4-5 can also wear it.


Yes it'd still be wrong... unless your music course officer happens to be a Colonel or Captain (N)... or higher. If not, then the Director of Cadets (whomever it might be at this moment) outranks your music course officer, and hence your music course officer must follow the orders of the director of cadets, which is such that the Music Instrutor badge is to be phased out as it no longer reflects the current training program available at Sea Cadet Summer Training Centers.
This isn't really true. It isn't a music course's officer's jurisdiction, no matter what the rank, to supersede DCdts.

[FoxDrummer]

Just wear it, you earned it. That's what I did.

[Bos'n101]

But thats just it, they didn't earn it. In order to earn somethingf, you must fulfill all the requirements. If the requirements are that you have to go back in time when a regulation existed regarding the item, then obviously no one here can have earned it, at least none of the current cadets.

[Conquistador]

This isn't really true. It isn't a music course's officer's jurisdiction, no matter what the rank, to supersede DCdts.

Well... that's like saying 'well, the admiral really have no right in interfering with this cadet activity, because he can't supercede the RCO'. Well, if someone of equal or higher rank wants to interfere, even though they really have no 'right', there really is nothing stopping them.

[Bando Commando]

Sure there is. Last I checked, there were no Admirals in the CIC ;)

And besides...it doesn't matter what rank you are. In this case, position outrules rank.

If, in your corps, there was, for arguments sake, a QPO1 as Coxswain. A CPO2 transfers over, say. An order comes from the Coxswain for a cadet to do...something. Does this CPO2, with literally no position within the unit whatsoever, have the right to overturn a decision made by the Coxswain?

FoxDrummer, you may have worn it. You may have earned it. When was the last time you got a music level? Quite possibly, before the badge was phased out.

Orders are orders, ladies and gents. I hate to break it to ya, but if you don't want to follow orders handed down by the Director of Cadets, then theres the door. Don't let it hit you in the a** too hard on your way out.

You don't want to listen to orders? You have no right to give them.

[Chief Hoult]

I think Chief Xiao's point still stands for the most part. No need in arguing semantics ;)

CH

[neilmc1234]

i have the sea cadet sail makers badge....that thing is HUGE :eek:


whats it look like do u have a pic :rolleyes:

[Conquistador]

Sure there is. Last I checked, there were no Admirals in the CIC ;)

The DCdts isn't CIC either. In fact, no CIC officer has a rank higher than Lt. Colonel or Commander. The RCO and DCdts are reg force officers.




And besides...it doesn't matter what rank you are. In this case, position outrules rank.

If, in your corps, there was, for arguments sake, a QPO1 as Coxswain. A CPO2 transfers over, say. An order comes from the Coxswain for a cadet to do...something. Does this CPO2, with literally no position within the unit whatsoever, have the right to overturn a decision made by the Coxswain?



Cadets have no rank. ALL cadet 'ranks' are really 'appoinments' within the cadet movement. They can be removed any time, in theory. Reg force (or any other officer rank) ranks cannot be removed simply by leaving an appointment, unless it was an acting rank to begin with. So really, comparing a cadet transferring to another corps with reg force officers of equivalent rank having a disagreement is like comparing baseballs and apples.

[thongdealer]

whats it look like do u have a pic :rolleyes:
yup:D here you go...

[BandBabe118]

theres no pic there???

BL

[thongdealer]

minor error...its ok...i didnt brake anything:)

and while we are on the subject...i have a scuba course badge..(like the trade badge, not the proficience one). Also naval airman badge....a bunch of old stuff kicking around

[Bos'n101]

That actually looks kind of cool! But I think I'll keep my wheel and call!

[Bando Commando]

I have similar stuff around here somewhere...

OOH! I have a really old Buglers badge kicking around somewhere! And an old blues Musician badge.

[Bos'n101]

I have an RCN signal book from 1944, not really related, but I thought you guys might appreciate the shear coolness.

[neilmc1234]

I have similar stuff around here somewhere...

OOH! I have a really old Buglers badge kicking around somewhere! And an old blues Musician badge.


I HAVE THE REALLY BIG BUGLERS BADGE TOO ITS HUGE BUT MINE IS BLUE WHAT ABOUT YOURS???? :rolleyes:

[Lt(N) Jean Cyr]

The DCdts isn't CIC either. In fact, no CIC officer has a rank higher than Lt. Colonel or Commander. The RCO and DCdts are reg force officers.

Not in your region. The RCO is CIC. As is the DCO.

:)

[Bando Commando]

I HAVE THE REALLY BIG BUGLERS BADGE TOO ITS HUGE BUT MINE IS BLUE WHAT ABOUT YOURS???? :rolleyes:

I think its green to tell the truth... :confused: