Hunting with Dogs

[lord_rupert]

If anyone has any questions on this topic or relating to the ban the UK Government are trying to push through then post here. I have been hunting since I was ye high and am currently heavily involved in the hunting campaign.

ROO :)

[Lancaster]

Like ive said before ROO, if you like it as a sport and not to kill then im with you, its better than a farmer shooting the fox when it goes on private land.

one suggestion the dogs should be trained to catch and not kill, and maybe if less dogs were involed in the hunt it might look betters to others.

And maybe you could do it on permissond land only then ifs fair on both the govermont, public and hunters.


anyway happy hunting ROO! :D

[lord_rupert]

The hunt is comprised of several groups - you have the hunt servants - the huntsman, kennel staff, the masters, the whippers in, the grooms. Some of these will be paid a normal wage, others will be paid in kind through bonuses like homes, vehicles, clothing etc. In addition a hunt has other expenses to meet - the daily running costs that any business incurs. This does not come cheap and funding is required - this comes from the supporters who pay their fees either for the full season or per day out with the hunt. In addition the foot supporters pay a small amount. This ensures the service the hunt offers to farmers is free and remains free.
As I have pointed out above the few hunt staff are in charge of dealing with the fox once caught, the rest of the field ensure that it remains an economically viable service. Therefore it is pest control but the sporting aspect pays the bills.

This appeared in Horse & Hound on Thursday and as I am currently 'off games' and no riding with my knee I typed it out for you:

"A snapshot of the fate of foxes under a hunting ban was highlighted last week by the case of a fox which had been shot in the head but still managed to live for a week before being caught and killed by a welsh pack. The case was publicised, along with graphic pictures, by the all-party parliamentary middle way group. The vixen had been shot with a rifle the method of control favoured by numerous anti-hunting organisations, resulting in horrific wounds, including the loss of half her tong and an eye and severe damage to her jaw and nasal cavity. She was put out of her misery by the Llanbrynmair Foxhounds.
Middle way chairman Lembit Opick, MP for Montgomeryshire, says: "This incident confirms that shooting is not always accurate and that even with rifles, wounding can occur. Had the hunt not fount her, the unfortunate animal's suffering would have continued unnoticed until she died. There is an enormous difference between suffering for seconds and for days."

ROO :cool:

[Cheryl Tucker]

I personnally am completely againist hunting with dogs. Dogs are pets - not servants. They can easily be killed or hurt accidently while hunting and admit it or not - many hunters kill or abandon thier dogs when they are no good for hunting. Likewise - hunting itself is not even nessacary. You can simply buy meat from a grocery store. Theres no need to go and kill unsuspecting animals as a 'sport'. And you can go and say that its always done so that the animals feel nothing but thats not always the case.

Disclaimer: This is just my personal opinion. I have nothing against hunters.

[lord_rupert]

I note that you are from Canada and I suspect although I may be wrong that hunting with dogs means different things in different nations.

In the UK context - I mean using a pack of hounds to track and dispose of an agricultural pest - in my case the fox. The hounds track the fox and then being much bigger than a fox (standing approx 30cm from shoulder to floor) they swiftly dispose of the fox. Our hounds are kept in kennels and are treated like kings (and queens in the case of the *****es (lady hounds)) they are fed twice a day, exercised for miles and adored like members of the family. When they are sick they get top medical treatment. The huntsman knows them all by name and we have over 100 hounds in kennels. They are never in danger when working, unless sabs try to take action against them.
We can use specially bred terriers to remove foxes who have gone to ground but they are worked by specially trained terriermen and only at strict permission of landowner.
Admittedly hounds who have reached the end of their working life are put down, but only then - they are not suitable for rehoming as they live with the pack from 10 months until they are aged 9 or 10. As they get older they get sick, unable to go out with the pack and get left behind. This makes them miserable as well as the pain of arthritis. In additon they may be bullied by younger hounds looking to improve their position in the pecking order. Therefore the kindest thing to do is humanely put them down. Yes it does hurt to have to put a friend down. But they live on through their offspring. PM me if you want to see some pics of our gorgeous guys..

On the issue of dogs as pets or working creatures - We have many dogs at home, approx ten plus the dogs that live with the staff - we love them all but they all have tasks - gun dog, guard dog, terrier dog. They are again treated like demi-gods. Fed, watered and exercised and couldn't be happier. In contrast I have seen so called pets who live a life of leisure and they have been fat, ill and unexercised - suffering more than the dogs I am supposedly exploiting :p

Best wishes
Roo :)

[Cheryl Tucker]

Right. Sorry - I was kinda thinking of hunting as in bird dogs who are used to killed birds or scout out other animals to be killed. I was not thinking of the fox thing yet I still do not agree with useing dogs to kill or keep away foxes.

[frammy]

Fox hunting is a tradition

so is procreation!

nuff said

[frammy]

[QUOTE=C_Tucker_508]I personnally am completely againist hunting with dogs. Dogs are pets - not servants.

Dogs are free animal spirits! what right do we as humans have to enslave dogs to be pets?

There will always bee a "Circle of Life! aka pecking order but one argument overules another

[wil_kla_von]

Haha. Right. I agree...so is procreation. :)

I have nothing against that type of hunting. If them foxes really are pests, then it seems to be most humane way to dispose of them. You know, giving them a slight chance of fighting back even though they will lose. Versus, a hunter blasting a fox away with .50 caliber sniper rifle from 100 meters out, or trying to poison them. Now thats inhumane, and very unsuspecting for the animal. (I don't know what kind of gun control laws are in place in the UK, so I used the .50 caliber sniper rifle). Hehe.

[Cheryl Tucker]

Haha. Right. I agree...so is procreation. :)

I have nothing against that type of hunting. If them foxes really are pests, then it seems to be most humane way to dispose of them. You know, giving them a slight chance of fighting back even though they will lose. Versus, a hunter blasting a fox away with .50 caliber sniper rifle from 100 meters out, or trying to poison them. Now thats inhumane, and very unsuspecting for the animal. (I don't know what kind of gun control laws are in place in the UK, so I used the .50 caliber sniper rifle). Hehe.

How is killing a fox amlost instantly with a gun inhumane compared to having the fox torn apart only semi-quick by dogs??

[Cheryl Tucker]

Sorry... for some reason it won't let me edit my post..

To continue with what I was saying... the fox is gonna die anyways... why let it suffer??

[frammy]

The dogs did that naturally before hunts were concieved anyway! its nature, only difference it is now used as pest control



Should we stop film crews filming Lions ripping open an antelope for its lunch, purely for our entertainment on TV?

[Cheryl Tucker]

The dogs did that naturally before hunts were concieved anyway! its nature, only difference it is now used as pest control



Should we stop film crews filming Lions ripping open an antelope for its lunch, purely for our entertainment on TV?
Yes but before hunts dogs were not trained and forced to kill. Remember - we are not talking about wild dogs here - were talking about like ah normal tame dogs (or at least I'm pretty sure we are). As for the lion - again... those are wild animals trying to live - not something that humans have taken and taught to be like they are.

[piper]

Theres nothing wrong with hunting, humans have been doing it for thousands of years. And nothing tastes better them some fresh deer or moose jerkey (I personally have shot nothing bigger then a squirrel, I just havent had the opprtunity to go hunting :( . But i have friends who do, and I get to share in the spoils of the hunt). And if the foxes are pests, and they have to be gotten rid of, let the hunt go on I say. It is a long standing tradition in the UK and for many a part of their history. And most dogs do stil have a hunter's instinct, they used to live wild in packs and hunt together like wolves. Ever been growled at or been protected by a dog? Or seen a police dog up close (when its angry)? I disagree that dogs are docile house pets.

[Cheryl Tucker]

Theres nothing wrong with hunting, humans have been doing it for thousands of years. And nothing tastes better them some fresh deer or moose jerkey (I personally have shot nothing bigger then a squirrel, I just havent had the opprtunity to go hunting :( . But i have friends who do, and I get to share in the spoils of the hunt). And if the foxes are pests, and they have to be gotten rid of, let the hunt go on I say. It is a long standing tradition in the UK and for many a part of their history. And most dogs do stil have a hunter's instinct, they used to live wild in packs and hunt together like wolves. Ever been growled at or been protected by a dog? Or seen a police dog up close (when its angry)? I disagree that dogs are docile house pets.
That still does not justify why the foxes should be pulled apart by a pack of dogs rather than killed instantly and a lot less painfully by gun. All because its tradition doesnt make it right.

[lord_rupert]

Ooh lots of questions where to start:

Let me explain a little bit about what happens when I take 'my hounds' out to hunt. I am Junior Master of our local hunt, this means that on certain days agreed by the Senior Master I hunt the hounds under the supervision of the Huntsman. My hounds run fast, they stand 30cm from the shoulder to the floor, they are heavy and have a very strong pair of jaws. They are taken to an area they have never seen before that season. They are lovely animals though stupid and with poor sight, they rely entirely on scent and track their quarry from the covert across country until they catch it, they lose the scent and the huntsman is unable to cast around for it or until it goes to ground. In the first instance the hounds finish off the fox in 30 seconds flat. It is messy but it is quick. In the second instance the fox may not be touched UNLESS the farmer specifically requests that the Hunt dispose of the fox. In this case I will call for the terriermen, they dig the fox out and it is then shot at close range by an expert marksman.
This is a fair method of disposing of foxes using natural selection to pick off the most troublesome foxes. It is fact that the oldest weakest foxes are the most trouble to farmers and thus must be controlled. Hunting picks them off as nature intended before man meddled and made bear and fox extinct in the UK.
The fox also has the advantage of local knowledge, my hounds cannot remember every inch of 600 square miles, the fox operates in a smaller area and has this advantage of knowing the cover.

I want to ask you, if you are shooting a fox, what fox willl you shoot - how do you know it is the troublemaker? Hunting removes this uncertainty. In addition who will shoot it, presently fox disposal is by professional hunt staff who are skilled in their work.

There was also raised the issue of cruelty. This is one of the most misunderstood issues surrounding fox hunting. There are four methods of fox control - please note control not fox extinction - only too many foxes are a pest.
First we have hunting - based upon natural selection, fair, quick, chance of escape completed by trained professionals to ensure only the troublesome foxes and governed by strict codes of conduct from the Master Fox Hounds Association.l
Second we have poisoning - this does not select the fox that is causing trouble, it take weeks to die in agony and does not discriminate between badgers, foxes and rabbits. It could be completed by anyone who felt they had a fox problem.
Third we have snares and traps - again not based on natural selection, non-discriminatory and can take weeks to die and can be set by anyone. No qualifications of restrictions. Nobody to complain to in the breach of fairness.
Finally there is shooting - again can be completed by anyone, not based on natural selection and no rules to say that you have to be a marksman to shoot a fox. It does not always enable a clean shot as foxes are naturally nocturnal unless flushed by hounds. It can leave a fox fatally wounded to die of gangrene weeks later.

This is illustrated by this article from Horse & Hound:

"A snapshot of the fate of foxes under a hunting ban was highlighted last week by the case of a fox which had been shot in the head but still managed to live for a week before being caught and killed by a welsh pack. The case was publicised, along with graphic pictures, by the all-party parliamentary middle way group. The vixen had been shot with a rifle the method of control favoured by numerous anti-hunting organisations, resulting in horrific wounds, including the loss of half her tong and an eye and severe damage to her jaw and nasal cavity. She was put out of her misery by the Llanbrynmair Foxhounds.
Middle way chairman Lembit Opick, MP for Montgomeryshire, says: "This incident confirms that shooting is not always accurate and that even with rifles, wounding can occur. Had the hunt not fount her, the unfortunate animal's suffering would have continued unnoticed until she died. There is an enormous difference between suffering for seconds and for days."

Now tell me which method would you choose????

Someone raised the point of hounds being forced to work. This is complete rubbish, we have to train hounds NOT to hunt creatures such as sheep and to concentrate on the foxes. Hunting is in their blood, it always has been and breeding has just concentrated this skill. In the case of our other ten dogs at home they are miserable if they cannot work. That is all they have known since they were pups, it is in their blood. Take Mack for example - he was sick the other year - my Dad had to leave him behind on a shoot and Mack pined by the window all day until my Dad came home. He had missed working on the shoot and couldn't wait to get back out there. These are not actions of dogs who dislike working. If they didn't work it is unlikely we would keep them all.

Keep the questions coming
Best Wishes
ROO :D

[Cheryl Tucker]

If they didn't work it is unlikely we would keep them all.
Could you please elaborate on what you mean here? What would you do with them if they couldnt hunt??

Likewise... What methods are used to train the dogs to hunt the the way you want them to?

[lord_rupert]

First the dogs we have at home would never have come to live with us if we didn't need them to work. We might have still bought half the number, but we wouldn't have ten if we didn't need them for their jobs. It sounds harsh but although they are members of the family they can't just sit at home lolling on the sofa and scoffing dog feed!
We have guard dogs that keep our house and home safe, we have gun dogs to retrieve the game birds, we have sheep dogs for herding stock, we have terriers to catch rats around the farm and yard. They all have their role to play.

Second our hounds are born in kennels and sent to local farmers for a year in a couple - hounds do not like to be separated from others. The farmers will take over training to get them used to sheep as objects of no interest.
After this period they return to us in kennels and are started to integrate back into the pack. In August we take them on autumn hunting duties - this is a very informal hunt duties before the main season starts and enables them to get to grips with working as a pack and listening to the huntsman. They are taught to follow the older, more senior hounds. It is in their nature but everyone needs pointers and hounds are no different.

In the event of a ban on hunting these hounds will not be able to adapt to household life they need miles of exercise, pack life, they are not house trained, leash trained, can run up to 60 miles each day and need huge quantities of raw meat. This would mean they would have to be shot, a very painful thought for me.

Hope this helps

ROO :)

[Cheryl Tucker]

To continue with my question (see, you've got me interested now lol). How are the dogs disiplined if they do not preform their duties properly?

(I am trying to get a better understanding of this fox hunt with dogs thing.)

[lord_rupert]

We carry whips which are not used on the hounds but can be cracked close by them as a reminder. All other commands are used by voice and by altering the tone of your voice, or the horn as carried by the huntsman. Much like in cadets you can alter the tone of your voice to change the meaning and get someone to take notice.

With the domestic dogs if they behave badly and voice commands are not working then a quick tug of their jowl (for non-doggy peeps the flap of skin around their mouth) can often remind them what they are supposed to be doing!

Best Wishes
ROO :D

[Cheryl Tucker]

Thats really interesting.

I congratulate you on partly changing my opinion towards this issue. I am still againist the hunting of any animal (they have a right to be there no matter how much they may or may not interfere with poor helpless humans :rolleyes: lol) for any reason other than nessecary food but I guess if hunting has to happen, useing dogs is not so bad after all as long as no harm ever comes in the way of the dog.

[lord_rupert]

Thank you for getting the old brain cells rattling!
Any other questions and you know where I am!!

Best Wishes
ROO :cool:

[smiley_sweet_heart]

I think that hunting actually should show an example, (the non-stereotypical)that hunt for food and sport wasting very little if any parts of an animal and allowing the animal lead the life it was meant to prior to its death rather then being in over crowded cages ect. and as for hunting with dogs i see nothing wrong with that it has been done for centuries. Personally i know that my 2 hunting dogs are very well loved, and are treated like any other family dog, its just that they hunt aswell, and as for many hunter abandoning dogs, i can assure you that there are many more non hunters abandoning dogs and other animals, have you seen how many animal shelters we have?? Plus my 12 year old dog is partially deaf and has arthritis but we still have him and love him very dearly.

[Sgt_McWatt]

I think that hunting actually should show an example, (the non-stereotypical)that hunt for food and sport wasting very little if any parts of an animal and allowing the animal lead the life it was meant to prior to its death rather then being in over crowded cages ect. and as for hunting with dogs i see nothing wrong with that it has been done for centuries. Personally i know that my 2 hunting dogs are very well loved, and are treated like any other family dog, its just that they hunt aswell, and as for many hunter abandoning dogs, i can assure you that there are many more non hunters abandoning dogs and other animals, have you seen how many animal shelters we have?? Plus my 12 year old dog is partially deaf and has arthritis but we still have him and love him very dearly.

I’d have to agree with this one. I have a 2-year-old boxer this June and for anyone who doesn’t know them they are perfect bread hunters. I couldn’t imagine her not hunting it comes so natural to her anything that moves, snowflakes, leaves, the watering can etc.. She always corners animals in our back yard because of her instant but once she gets them there she doesn’t know what to do its quite cute actually. But to get to the point. We breaded these doges for century’s and to now turn our backs on that is unfair to the dogs.

*NOTE* I'm not an animal activist or a "tree hugger" this is just a opinion i had to state.

[lord_rupert]

The point one hunt master made when I was chatting with him - is everyone gets up in arms about some of the damage that our hounds cause, a rare occurrance but has been known to happen. What about their charming little moggies who are rampaging the countryside killing off rare species and under no control whatsoever. Flippant maybe, but where will restriction stop.
Incidentally the so called animal lovers who are trying to stop this method of pest control without looking at the alternatives have no qualms about injuring riders or horses. Just 7 weeks back I was taking a fence and an anti decided to wave a banner around, she distracted my horse who rolled over the fence, broke my arm and injured himself. We are now rebuilding Den's confidence but that could have been £4000 worth of horse killed.

ROO :mad:

[wil_kla_von]

How is killing a fox amlost instantly with a gun inhumane compared to having the fox torn apart only semi-quick by dogs??

My point was that the fox would have some type of chance, although slight, of defending itself. Very slight, but I am not one to be debating English(?) tradition, its just my opinion. Maybe I should not have said anything because the extent of me seeing a "hunt" is on film.

I have more to say, but I do not think it is appropriate for this thread.

Cheers,

[Aprile]

(and queens in the case of the *****es (lady hounds))Best wishes
Roo :)
Don't call them that!!!! :p Geeze ROO, is that what you call the females of every species? (this is just a joke)

Anyway, my two cents. When I first found out about Roo hunting.. it bothered me, because I always thought hunting was wrong, then I realized how ignorant I am to the whole thing. I'm not like crazy pro-hunter (*coughs* Roo *coughs*) but it doesn't bother me as much anymore. I think that Roo and his group are educated enough to make good decisions.

[lord_rupert]

First Aprile - I had no idea the thought of hunting bothered you! But I am glad I may have convinced that I am not a bloodthirsty killer who rampages across the UK. Picking up on the point that Aprile made about the knowledge embodied by those who hunt - all people involved in running the hunts have a huge amount of local knowledge - we do a huge amount of liaison with landowners and farmers and like to think our knowledge of the land gives us a certain degree of information which allows us to make the best decisions to control the threat of foxes. Also within this idea of the local knowledge running the area - the hunt does not just sit around on their backsides waiting for the new season to start - we run all manner of events for the local community, we fix any damage that may have been caused, and are basically responsible for maintaining the look of the UK as it is today. Unfortunately the UK's natural ecology is oak woodland - not very suitable for many activities and it is hunts and farmers that manage the land in its present form of moorland, rolling hills, open fens, fields & pasture etc. Without the hunts and the farmers it would look very different.

Secondly Wilhelm's point of shooting being more humane, unfortunately the reverse is often true. The hunt may only be carried out by qualified professionals licensed by our governing body the Master Fox Hounds Association (in the case of English Fox Hunts) in the case of lamping there is no restriction on who completes this task. This means that many more foxes can be shot, by unqualified marksmen who may miss their target and leave the fox to die in agony. Hunting offers more chance of escape as the fox may go to ground, escape entirely from the short sighted hounds who are off their home territory. Hunting is also rooted in natural selection picking off the weakest foxes who are more likely to target the captured meals offered by farming enterprises. With shooting the main question is which fox do you shoot??

ROO :)

[aduff]

Fox hunting is so opposed in the UK becuase it is an upper class sport. (no offence roo) but its people out o get thrills by killing an animal for doing nothing but its natural instinct.

If the farmers don't have the intelligence to build a compund that stops foxes getting to the chickens, hens etc it is their own fault.

Hunting with dogs has been banned in Scotland and there has been no repurcussions. If the House of Lords wasn't filled with stuffy old men, so detached from the population it would be a UK wide ban.

[lord_rupert]

Fox hunting is so opposed in the UK becuase it is an upper class sport. (no offence roo) but its people out o get thrills by killing an animal for doing nothing but its natural instinct.

First have you ever been to a hunt meet?? If you do (I'm guessing you haven't) you might be surprised to see who actually hunts, popular belief has it that we are all a bunch of upperclass twits, wearing stupid outfits and rushing about on plunging steeds. The reality is that the entire community turns out to hunt. It is a big gathering in rural areas. We have a wide range of people who hunt - big landowners, farmers, retirees, students, children and teenagers. If they can't afford to ride and keep their horse they follow on bikes, quad bikes and even on foot. Nobody is excluded and all are welcome to come and join us for a taster day.

Your second point is the natural instinct of the fox, fair enough. But often the fox doesn't eat it's victim, it drains the blood and leaves the carcass. Using natural instinct argument, my hounds' natural instinct is to hunt as a pack. We utilise this instinct to fairly dispose of a rural pest. No different to you killing rats at home. Foxes might be slightly more sexy and a bit fluffier but they are a threat to our livelihoods. My post somewhere above explains the fairness of the methods of control.

If the farmers don't have the intelligence to build a compund that stops foxes getting to the chickens, hens etc it is their own fault.

Foxes are very clever animals, it is nigh on impossible to build fox-proof compounds, foxes can dig well, so no matter how high i build my fence or how deep I sink the posts they can get through.

[quote]If the House of Lords wasn't filled with stuffy old men, so detached from the population it would be a UK wide ban.

The ban is unlikely to squeeze through across the whole UK as it is unjust in several areas. However the biggest flaw is that they are planning to use the Parliament Act, this states that it must be the same bill which has already failed to get through. This bill does not provide for compensation for those who will be unemployed and homeless from this law. This means we can challenge in the European Court of Human Rights who will throw it out. End of Story.
If they add in the compensation section, it won't be the same bill and they won't be able to use the Parliament Act to force it through, back to square one and the long battle to get the revised bill through.
In addition no sane government s going to risk the possibility of hoping that the Countryside Lobby are simply bluffing with their promise to continue hunting.
On the composition of the House of Lords - better the sons of men who have made a difference in history than a bunch of Tony's Cronies IMO.

Therefore chances of a ban before November 2004 as widely reported in the papers = slim to zero

ROO :D

[aduff]

First of all I meant it was SEEN as an upperclass sport so sorry bout that (and for the record you do wear silly outfits ;) )

As for a hunt meet I havent been on one but there used to be a regular hunt in the village where i used to live.

I know foxes are intelligent, but I'm sure farmers could outsmart them!

AS for fox hunting I'm not against it, hunting with hounds I am. I of course would kill vermon but not by getting a dog to rip it apart.

As for the EU (in their mighty wisdom :rolleyes: ) putting it out due to lack of compensation, I'm not as sure as you. As job losses are not neccesary, the dogs can still be kept and therefore less job losses if as many say it is the sport they enjoy and not the killing. Whats wrong with bloodhounding or draghunting, you still get the chase, to work on your horseman skills.

No one in my opinion loses out??

[lord_rupert]

First of all I meant it was SEEN as an upperclass sport so sorry bout that (and for the record you do wear silly outfits ;) )

As for a hunt meet I havent been on one but there used to be a regular hunt in the village where i used to live.

I know foxes are intelligent, but I'm sure farmers could outsmart them!

AS for fox hunting I'm not against it, hunting with hounds I am. I of course would kill vermon but not by getting a dog to rip it apart.

As for the EU (in their mighty wisdom :rolleyes: ) putting it out due to lack of compensation, I'm not as sure as you. As job losses are not neccesary, the dogs can still be kept and therefore less job losses if as many say it is the sport they enjoy and not the killing. Whats wrong with bloodhounding or draghunting, you still get the chase, to work on your horseman skills.

No one in my opinion loses out??

Fair enough we do have a bad PR problem, which we are trying to address with iniatives including - Hounds to Town - fairly self-explanatory - we take the hounds to a town for a day to be seen by the public. We are also busy with newcomers weeks to get more people interested in what a real hunt is like.

Second, this may well work in lowland areas, however a major part of land management plans in upland areas including Dartmoor and the Fells is that sheep and cattle graze the land freely. There is no way a shepherd can protect the lambs across 365 Square Miles of wild moorland.

The third part of the issue of killing - I'm not saying hunting is nice, I have no reason not to be straight with you. I have seen kills and they aren't pleasant. However it is a good deal nicer than leaving a fox to die in agony weeks later by shooting, poisoning, snaring or gassing. The merit of hunting is it is fair and quick, all over in approx 30 seconds.

In an ideal world the hounds and hunt staff will be absorbed by drag hunting. In practice drag hunting often takes place on the back of the pest control service offered by 'real hunts'. Even if these continue in the same numbers there is no way that the limited number of drags can absorb all these hounds and staff - over 2000 people employed by 184 hunts with on average 100 hounds in each kennel. This means that in reality there will be job loss for hounds, horses and staff. This would be bad enough but the unique structure of hunt service means that the majority of these in one fell swoop will lose their home, livelihood, vehicle, clothing allowance, horses. No wonder they are angry!

On the point of my lovely hunting kit - it is all based in practical traditions -for example I wear a red coat to mark me out as a 'special person' - a member of the hunt staff. The horn not carried by me is a method of communicating the wishes of the huntsman to hounds, field and to me. A method which is three times louder than the human voice. It really isn't practical to ride along using mobiles to communicate!
The stock which I tie round my neck, may look like a girly bow but will protect my neck in the event of a tumble, whilst the ferocious looking whip serves the dual purpose of gate opening tool while mounted on an excited hunter and the long lash discourages hounds from hanging about too close to my horse's hooves, which can be lethal to a hound if my horse gets antsy and kicks out.

ROO :D

On a side note if anyone has any questions about why I do what I do and why I feel strongly about this issue then leave them here or PM me if you'd rather.

RJHL

[lord_rupert]

For those that are interested in the progress of the campaign - a renewed effort has been launched by the Countryside Alliance to bombard MPs who signed the Early Day Motion trying to bring in a new bill to ban hunting.
The stance we are taking is with the Uk in such a mess - why are they faffing about with such a bill that will improve the quality of life of no citizen and be to the detriment of over 8000 others.

ROO :D

[lord_rupert]

http://www.hounds.org.uk/Gallery/balaclava-man.jpg

How would you like to face this man on private property whilst taking part in a legal activity???

ROO :mad:

[aduff]

You could always take part in protester hunting - saves the foxes and gets rid of wastes of space like him, also saves on the overcrowded prisons.

[lord_rupert]

Good plan, I'll suggest it to the Hunt Master of our local hunt!

ROO :D

[An Aussie ANZAC]

Dogs is very important to me in many ways.

A lot of people dont realise that a lot of dogs out there are working dogs, and they just love to work. let it be hunting, searching, or whatever, dogs need to be worked and if you think people should not be working dogs, then you are wrong. Dogs like working, its pleases them and they feel it pleases their owners.

I have my own dog, a German Shephard, and currently he is trained to be a Tracker Dog for the Emergency Service. I work with him all the time as a Dog Handler. the thing about him, if he doesnt get his walk or have some work to do, he get depressed. He train to find people alive or decease (alive preferably of course) in all kinds of condition.

I am also in the process of getting a new dog (already i know) and i aim to train this dog in Urban Search and Rescue (USAR). There are different types of dogs, and i just prefer the working types. mainly German Shephard.

I am a bit touchy about dogs and killing. I believe dogs should be trained to hunt if they show signs of hunting. even in the military and police forces certain type of dogs are trained to attack and in the most extreme case to kill. but dogs dont do it if they dont like it.

What i am against is people training dogs for the wrong reasons.

[lord_rupert]

Well said sir.
It pains me greatly to think of our 100 hounds being put down - a scenario that would be repeated in every pack across the country..

ROO :(