Kyoto protocol

[Thib]

In a article that I was reading that the Kyoto proptpcol would be scrapped under a Tory government. The Tory would want to put in place a systeme that would be better suited for the need of Canadians (in their opinion)

Can anyone tell me more about the systeme they want to set in place to replace the kyoto Protocol and do you think it would be a better choice for Canadians?

Here are some article about the subject:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1845&ncid=1845&e=2&u=/cpress/20040609/ca_pr_on_na/fedelxn_conservatives
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1086819011152&call_pageid=974089105216&col=974089088220

[offguard96]

If they're anything like Bush in the States, the new "system" can be summed up thusly:

Anything goes.

[Lance]

Under a Harper government, one side of the coin is this. Should he be elected my guess is that he would lift current emission laws, increasing the use of, say, coal fired powerplants, which would increase power, as well as toxic emissions, and change them possibly to a lower standard for emissions. On the plus side, right now emission laws are crippling industries, by the relief of some of these laws you could turn the industry over, making them able to do enough work to meet quotas, rather than to have to settle for what the emissions laws will allow. But, all this being said, as the yahoo article said, details are few and most will be worked out later. Environmental leaders such as David Suzuki say funding would even be cut shorter to Environmental Agencies, another not so good side of the coin. I wonder if there are enough environmentalists out there to not get him elected... :confused:

Cleaner air is definately a big issue these days, and saying that an accord already endorsed by 100+ countries is just a pipe dream took some gull and probably lost him a vote or two.

[Bos'n101]

Cleaner air is definately a big issue these days, and saying that an accord already endorsed by 100+ countries is just a pipe dream took some gull and probably lost him a vote or two.
Like mine for example!

[piper]

As a matter of fact, those comments were completely appropriate. Just because it (Kyoto) was singed by 100 countries means nothing at all, I'll believe it when I see emissions go down. The only way all these emissions will go down is if we stop the demand for products made in this way, and that won't happen, ever. They'll all sign the protocol because it looks good to the voters, and then forget about it after an election. Kyoto IS a pipe dream, a nice one and a good start and on the right track, but a pipe dream none the less.

[Neo]

Scapping the Kyoto Protocols is a bad idea... Clean Air = Good.

Except for all the Rich Oil Executives who are propping up the CPC/Alliance Campaign.

[The Blue Tory]

sure... The Star how'd I know...

[jhunter]

The Kyoto Accords was a nice idea, but there is no incentives for Canada to be a member. Without the US participating, a major contributor of greenhouse gasses, it doesn't make economic sense to participate. Further, the Kyoto accord does nothing for chemcials polluting the air which are not greenhouse gasses. Further, there where "credits" given to countries which where large "carbon sinks". Canada was given less of those credits for our overly large carbon sinks, in the form of lots of trees, compared to other countries because of our country's level of development.

There is less smog if you install sulfur scrubbers, and NOX reducers and there is a big industry waiting for those who would enter the market of installing those technologies. It certainly sounds better then the alternatives of telling a plant to run less, or to build acid plants for it's captured smoke.

[Neo]

The Kyoto Accords was a nice idea, but there is no incentives for Canada to be a member. Without the US participating, a major contributor of greenhouse gasses, it doesn't make economic sense to participate.

Well whats the use of having a strong economy if in the next century the world is basically screwed over environmentally. I think we owe it to those that come after us to do whatever we can to save this planet.

Kyoto may not be perfect, but its a start in the right direction. Why should Canada follow through with this? Because we told the world we would. Everyone talks about Canada's role in the world, and how we need to increase respect for Canada in other countries. Well, the way you do that is honouring the agreements you signed.

Just because the United States isn't going to implement Kyoto, doesn't mean we shouldn't. Thankfully, the Liberal Gov't of the the last ten years hasn't automatically agreed with the US, which would happen if the CPC/Alliance somehow manages to win the Election. Friends don't always have to agree, Canada can make her own decisions.

When it comes down to the future of this planet, we cannot be willing to put a price tag on it.

[wb256]

A system better suited for the needs of Canadians is a bad idea. Forany enviromentalist policy to work we need to at least TRY to get as many nations involved as possible (if not, the problem won't be solved in the least).

I think global enviromental laws would be a great idea. That way the IMF can stop forcing the LDW to be a dumping ground for our waste (they force low enviromental controls, which results in AWFUL pollution in the 3rd world).

[jhunter]

A system better suited for the needs of Canadians is a bad idea.

Look out over Toronto in the summer about 4pm. You see the orange-brown haze that sometimes hangs over the city? That isn't greenhouse gas. It's particulate matter, Nitrogen Dioxide, Sufur Dioxide, Carbon Monoxide, and Lead. I think the "better system" is to remove these things from our air before we worry about Carbon Dioxide, as we are already doing our part by not cutting down our very large supply of trees all at once.

[Thib]

Look out over Toronto in the summer about 4pm. You see the orange-brown haze that sometimes hangs over the city? That isn't greenhouse gas. It's particulate matter, Nitrogen Dioxide, Sufur Dioxide, Carbon Monoxide, and Lead. I think the "better system" is to remove these things from our air before we worry about Carbon Dioxide, as we are already doing our part by not cutting down our very large supply of trees all at once.

The way I see it's a global probleme not just a Canadian one so a solution rest on finding a way that the vast majority of Nation will accept. Kyoto might not be the answer there might be a better one, but working with other is the only wat to go.

[Insane Power Pilot]

Bah! All you need to do is provide tax incentives to buy hybrid or electric cars and subsidize local mass transit systems and provide subsidies for wind power/hydro power/nuclear power and your emissions go well under 6% below 1999 levels. All this can be accomplished without tying our hands to an international agreement...but that's all I'll say without getting into my thoughts about world government...

They already provide the tax deduction for hybrids in the U.S. and a substantial chunk of the gas tax is supposed to (but doesn't!) go to municipal transportation budgets. As for low emission power plants, it's really a no-win situation...hydro and wind still have quite an impact on wildlife (as well, wind is rather expensive to implement and you need a lot of generators in a place with regular strong winds), solar is unfeasible in this country as we don't get a heck of a lot of sun especially in winter, and nuclear...well, some people have these crazy whacked-out notions that its unsafe...

[offguard96]

Why don't we follow global guidelines for CO2, while at the same time having enough national initiative to set our own guidelines for all the other pollutants? Ignoring a step in the right direction is stupid.

[mbabenko]

We can't really do anything unless Canada nationalizes the oil (extraction & treatment plants), for you can't just talk sense into private american oil companies, nor impose them anything without consequences from Bush.... But then, it would mean TAXES and external debt, which is doubleplusbad.

[offguard96]

Big oil isn't really at fault in this, I hate to say. Sure, they've purchased and buried patents for technologies that allow their product to be used more cleanly and efficiently, but that's about as far as it goes (apart from lobbying, I suppose).

The fault for emissions lies with those emitting them. Cars, factories, power plants, that sort of thing. Factories can be controlled with fines and taxes where appropriate. Private-sector power plants can be controlled the same way, or they can be owned by the government and transitioned into cleaner operating methods. Cars, I'm sad to say, are harder to change...people love their giant useless trashy SUVs, and there's almost nothing that can be done. It's not fair to fine or tax them, but what you can do is give big tax breaks to those who choose to purchase more efficient, cleaner cars...hybrids, electrics, hydrogen cells, or just super-efficient gas cars...that would certainly help.

Ignoring the problem certainly doesn't help.

[Lil Lightnin]

I'm really torn over this issue. I like the conservative party, but I can't help myself but to worry about their direction on the environment. I don't believe the Liberals have any direct plan for the Kyoto Protocol right now, and that sticking wind turbines all over the country is a realistic solution. Green cars will play a large part, but I don't think the government has much control over those other than offering rebates. Once they become more practical, inexpensive, and profitable for auto makers, they'll catch on. That isn't too far off.