Is Mr. Martin conducting a dirty campaign?

[The Blue Tory]

With his attack ads, and every speech attack the Conservatives, as well not to mention the cabinet ministers crashing other parties' candidates campaign stops... Is the campaign being run dirty or is he just playing the game?

[condor888000]

It's turning into an American style election. Which is very unfortunate.

[wb256]

The campaign is ridiculous, but what is also ridiculous is that you're blaming it on Paul Martin.

Look at all of steven harper's ads! They're all bashing liberals! Jack layton said that the main difference between his platform and the liberals is that he's actually going to follow it.

In fact, from what I've noticed the Liberals do far less mud slinging than the conservatives!

*note* I support none of the above mentioned parties. I just think it's petty liberal bashing to blame all of this on our current PM. Before you go and accuse others of mudslinging, maybe you should look at yourself buddy.

[condor888000]

Look at the Liberal ads. They take a quote and misrepresent it. And you must admit that Martin was the first to do this this year.

[wb256]

Look at the Liberal ads. They take a quote and misrepresent it. And you must admit that Martin was the first to do this this year.


No, I can't admit that. They've been bashing each other since the beginning of time. Blaming this on the liberals is...well...ridiculous.

[condor888000]

Point taken. But what I ment was that they were the first to use televised attack ads.

[wb256]

Point taken. But what I ment was that they were the first to use televised attack ads.


And by blaming all of this on them, you're joining into the political mudslinging.

[condor888000]

I am. So what? I happen to agree with Harper. I dislike the Liberals and I tell others this. I try to get others to change their opinions, or at least their vote, one of the best ways is, infortunatly, insult or put down the other parties. Maybe if they kept campaign promises *cough, Dalton McGuinty, cough* they wouldn't have people making such comments. And that applies to all of them.

[wb256]

I am. So what? I happen to agree with Harper. I dislike the Liberals and I tell others this. I try to get others to change their opinions, or at least their vote, one of the best ways is, infortunatly, insult or put down the other parties. Maybe if they kept campaign promises *cough, Dalton McGuinty, cough* they wouldn't have people making such comments. And that applies to all of them.


First of all, provincial and federla liberals are two totally different political organizations. Hating feds for the provs is like not buying a bob dylan cd because you think bob geldof sucks (same name, no firther relation).

Now, my MAIN point was, that if you join in the political mudslinging after attacking someone for doing it, it's hypocritical, plain and simple.

[condor888000]

I'm a hypocrite. Your point? Are any of the leaders not? They get mad about people insulting them and their parties and yet they do it to others.

I know feds and provincial are different, but they belong to the same party correct? They should same similar, if not the same, views/ideaology, correct?

I didn't mean to attack anyone I was stating a point but however you take it...

[wb256]

I'm a hypocrite. Your point? Are any of the leaders not? They get mad about people insulting them and their parties and yet they do it to others.

I know feds and provincial are different, but they belong to the same party correct? They should same similar, if not the same, views/ideaology, correct?

I didn't mean to attack anyone I was stating a point but however you take it...


They have similar ideologies...but the incompetence of one shouldn't relfect that of the other. It's not a problem with McGuinty's ideology that people have, it's a problem with the way he goes about applying it to politics.

And by taking part in the mudsliinging, you become no better than the ldeaders you call fools, idiots, and what not.

[condor888000]

I don't claim to be better than they are. I'm not. I have a feeling that most people aren't. I call them fools/idiots/worse things that I won't post because that's my opinion. If people disagree, great! A good argument is always fun.

And if it's how he applies it to policy is the problem, then what happened with the sponsorship scandal. Oh, I get it, McGuinty and Galiano are one and the same :rolleyes:

[jhunter]

Actually, the mudslinging started early with all the other parties other then the liberals. The other parties were useing the ad-campaign scandal as a campaigning point well before a writ was dropped.

Also, I found the liberal mudslinging to be much more sofisticated. For instance, they make available the whole article where something was said, they offer biographical backgrounds, etc. If anyone is guilty of quotes out of context, it would be the bloc. The bad quotes are often a result of a poor job in translations.

Don't plan on this going on for so much longer. The Ontario election was a good indication of what happens when you play in the mud. The provicial liberals absolutely refused to sink to the PC level, and it cost the PCs many votes when they realized that had to switch from smear-campaign to platform-campaign halfway in, and the liberals had a few weeks of a head start in that arena...which ultimately cost them the election: here's Dalton saying that even if there was a $2 billion hidden debt, he would be able to bring about a very socialistic platform...while the PCs were throwing bipartisan arguements since they really didn't recover from trying just to be anti-Dalton.

[Whiff]

The same thing happened in the NL provincial Election. All 3 parties started off with a platform-based campaign. Then nearing the end the Liberals turned to a spear campaign while the NDP and PC ignored it and kept in the platform based. In the end, NDP kept their 2 seats, PC increased their seats from 16 to 34, and the Liberals went from 30 to 12.

[The Blue Tory]

Without reading prior posts...

You don't see Harper or fellow Conservative MPs or candidates going out and crashing other's campaigns... Only Liberals!

They did it with Dennis Mills to Jack Layton's wife
They did it to Harper on two occasions...

I whole heartedly believe that those gay activists were sent by Liberals as well... it seems to fit the pattern

[Neo]

Look at the Liberal ads. They take a quote and misrepresent it. And you must admit that Martin was the first to do this this year.

Yet those very ads give you a website address to look at thet source of the quote and its context, something the CPC/Alliance hasn't done.

Harper basically calls Martin an untrustworthy crook.. and no one says anything, the Liberal's do anything remotely similar and suddenly they are running a dirty campaign.


Let's be a bit more levelheaded shall we?

PS: http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/thecampaign/canadavotes_cartoon/images/10.jpg

[The Blue Tory]

Yet those very ads give you a website address to look at thet source of the quote and its context, something the CPC/Alliance hasn't done.

Harper basically calls Martin an untrustworthy crook.. and no one says anything, the Liberal's do anything remotely similar and suddenly they are running a dirty campaign.


Let's be a bit more levelheaded shall we?

PS: http://www.cbc.ca/canadavotes/thecampaign/canadavotes_cartoon/images/10.jpg
Notice how the Liberals are the only party who hasn't had one of their gatherings crashed by another party's member?

It's pure desperation... The Liberals know they are only 1% ahead of the CPC now... They are panicking...

[Neo]

Notice how the Liberals are the only party who hasn't had one of their gatherings crashed by another party's member?

It's pure desperation... The Liberals know they are only 1% ahead of the CPC now... They are panicking...

Then why is the CPC/Alliance caring about it, they make a big deal out of it, but why?

[The Blue Tory]

Then why is the CPC/Alliance caring about it, they make a big deal out of it, but why?
It is not acceptable what the Liberals are doing. Just because your party is dropping in the polls dramatically gives no right to the Fiberals to go out and disrupt the other parties...

[Neo]

Once again you refer to them as CPC/Alliance... I will refer to yours as Fiberals...

It is not acceptable what the Fiberals are doing. Just because your party is dropping in the polls dramatically gives no right to the Fiberals to go out and disrupt the other parties...

If the Alliance-Conservatives are doing so well, then why do they worry about it?

[The Blue Tory]

If the Alliance-Conservatives are doing so well, then why do they worry about it?
I don't know, I never knew there was an Alliance Conservative party... never heard of it...

[Neo]

I don't know, I never knew there was an Alliance Conservative party... never heard of it...

Alright then, the CPC/Alliance...

[The Blue Tory]

I say you check your PMs...

(Post will be deleted soon)

[Walsh]

I dont think we need a poll on everything here.

[The Blue Tory]

I dont think we need a poll on everything here.
this poll is about something meaningful. unlike several others... You picked the wrong poll to criticize its usefulness

[wb256]

Gay activisits are a Liberal plot? Yes, I'm sure they are. Let's blame the neo-nazis and Al Quada on them as well. I hear they're also responsible for the introduction of HIV into the human population as well {!}

But seriously. Gay activists arn't big fans of the conservatives. I'm sure they went to protest on their own accord, and likely don't even vote Liberal (probably something more left leaning and open minded).

ALL of the parties are responsible of this, and in all honesty I find Steven Harper's campaign to be far worse as far as mud slinging goes. Far before any TV ads came out, the conservatives have been bashing the Liberals. It was even worse when they were still the Alliance (I say this because the majority of the MP's were at one time Alliance members).

Paul Martin is not running this whole election, and regardless of who started it, everyone's guilty. Blaming this all on the Liberals seems almost elementary school yard style to me.

"b...b...b...but he started it" is basically what this amounts to.

[The Blue Tory]

Gay activisits are a Liberal plot? Yes, I'm sure they are. Let's blame the neo-nazis and Al Quada on them as well. I hear they're also responsible for the introduction of HIV into the human population as well {!}

But seriously. Gay activists arn't big fans of the conservatives. I'm sure they went to protest on their own accord, and likely don't even vote Liberal (probably something more left leaning and open minded).

ALL of the parties are responsible of this, and in all honesty I find Steven Harper's campaign to be far worse as far as mud slinging goes. Far before any TV ads came out, the conservatives have been bashing the Liberals. It was even worse when they were still the Alliance (I say this because the majority of the MP's were at one time Alliance members).

Paul Martin is not running this whole election, and regardless of who started it, everyone's guilty. Blaming this all on the Liberals seems almost elementary school yard style to me.

"b...b...b...but he started it" is basically what this amounts to.
I'm just thinking that... who knows, they might have been sent or they may have come on there own accord...

I believe they were sent by the Liberals because it fits the pattern of late of their campaign crashing...

[Wood]

It is not acceptable what the Liberals are doing. Just because your party is dropping in the polls dramatically gives no right to the Fiberals to go out and disrupt the other parties...

.... you complain about useless "mudslinging", while you call the Liberal Party of Canada "fiberals" (especially disappointing because you yourself have pointed out that provincial and federal politicians are not the same). That's like me pushing you and then yelling at you for pushing.

[The Blue Tory]

.... you complain about useless "mudslinging", while you call the Liberal Party of Canada "fiberals" (especially disappointing because you yourself have pointed out that provincial and federal politicians are not the same). That's like me pushing you and then yelling at you for pushing.
take a look at each and every post, find me one that still says Fiberal...

[Tomtom]

It is not acceptable what the Liberals are doing. Just because your party is dropping in the polls dramatically gives no right to the Fiberals to go out and disrupt the other parties...

How about this one?

[Ching]

Zing!!! :D

[The Blue Tory]

meh, so I missed changing one...

The Liberal sent idiot at the rally today, looked like such an idiot... his yells were completely drowned out lol... and Harper didn't miss a step

[JGallagher]

My oppions are that Prime Minister Paul Martin is playing the game. He is just trying to do what all the other Canadiates are trying to do, and that is win. It is a political game that has been going on over the world for years. I am sure some of you have used tatics to get what you want. I mean it is human nature to make your self look good. I know that I have.

[The Blue Tory]

My oppions are that Prime Minister Paul Martin is playing the game. He is just trying to do what all the other Canadiates are trying to do, and that is win. It is a political game that has been going on over the world for years. I am sure some of you have used tatics to get what you want. I mean it is human nature to make your self look good. I know that I have.
then again, if a leader can't handle some protestors, how can they handle pressure?

Harper has done a great job thus far... Concentrating on his own issues, with a little pointing out Liberal mistakes. Liberals on the other hand have been criticizing the other parties more than they have spent time on their issues

[wb256]

then again, if a leader can't handle some protestors, how can they handle pressure?

Harper has done a great job thus far... Concentrating on his own issues, with a little pointing out Liberal mistakes. Liberals on the other hand have been criticizing the other parties more than they have spent time on their issues


That's all heresay dude. Every speech that I've seen steven harper give involved a LOT of liberal bashing. Everytime I've seen Paul Martin bash the conservatives, it was due to the media asking him what he thought of Steven Harper's platform.

Either way, it's not all the Liberals...they're ALL guilty of it. Blaming it on the Liberals is just joining their dirty game.

[wb256]

take a look at each and every post, find me one that still says Fiberal...


Either way, you WERE mudslinging. You may have stopped now because people got sick of it, but you're just as guilty. It's quite hypocritical to complain about Liberal mudslinging after you were doing the exact same thing (despite the fact that you may have stopped).

[The Blue Tory]

Either way, you WERE mudslinging. You may have stopped now because people got sick of it, but you're just as guilty. It's quite hypocritical to complain about Liberal mudslinging after you were doing the exact same thing (despite the fact that you may have stopped).
At least I have enough sense to stop and change them... unlike someone who doesn't recognize the name of a party...

[wb256]

At least I have enough sense to stop and change them... unlike someone who doesn't recognize the name of a party...


And that was more mud slinging right there dude.

[The Blue Tory]

And that was more mud slinging right there dude.
no... that was just dirt... all the water in it evaporated...

[Ching]

So why bother throwing it, then?

[condor888000]

This is getting sad guys...it's really bad when a 16 year old sees it.

[Earlam]

So why bother throwing it, then?

Because if it gets in Liberal voters' eyes, they might not be able to see a ballot properly. Then they won't vote, and it will be a CPC victory!
BOO-YAH!

[Insane Power Pilot]

I don't know, I never knew there was an Alliance Conservative party... never heard of it...

Aw come on Ed, give it a rest...I was a Progressive Conservative before the merger and this "CPC/Alliance" doesn't bother me. :)

[SLt T. Clausen]

Stephen Harper has been deeply criticising the Liberals since he became the CPC candidate, months and months ago. That's kind of his job as official opposition. He's just more... into it... than other oppositions have been. To be honest, I don't like either Stephen Harper OR Paul Martin. However, I WILL vote for one of them, as I'm trying my best to vote in the direction of a Liberal-CPC minority government. They're all slinging mud now (Jack Layton seems to do it the least, however). Just look at the D-Day mess... Jack Layton and Stephen Harper declined an invitation to go to D-Day with Paul Martin, refusing to politicise the event. Which was admirable, until they kept talking about how they didn't want to politicise it and criticising Paul Martin of politicising the event that they ended up politicising the event.

And whoever was criticising the federal Liberals as a result of the actions of the provincial Liberals... that's just not done, man. Everyone knows that they are completely different... they share virtually nothing but their name. Their ideologies may be similar, but their application is going to be COMPLETELY different due to the fact that one is involved merely in provincial politics while the other in national. The application of that ideology is going to be dictated by whatever is in each's jurisdiction as a government.

[The Blue Tory]

This is turning ridiculous (sp?)... The claims made these days now by these leaders are so unbelievably lacking... And to think Layton's accusing of Martin being a murderer was just the beginning...

Funny thing is, Martin claims that "to pay for Harper's increase to military, health care, and taxes and other stuff, that Harper will have to cut health care, which is unacceptable" or something like that. That statement is so ignorant and incorrect it's not even funny... Harper will increase health care and not cut it. As a matter of fact, the only person to cut health care was Martin!!!

[wb256]

This is turning ridiculous (sp?)... The claims made these days now by these leaders are so unbelievably lacking... And to think Layton's accusing of Martin being a murderer was just the beginning...

Funny thing is, Martin claims that "to pay for Harper's increase to military, health care, and taxes and other stuff, that Harper will have to cut health care, which is unacceptable" or something like that. That statement is so ignorant and incorrect it's not even funny... Harper will increase health care and not cut it. As a matter of fact, the only person to cut health care was Martin!!!

The statement wasn't ignorant at all Ed. Harper's plans arn't very fiscally responsible. In the end, he'll have to cut something.

[offguard96]

The Liberal sent idiot at the rally today, looked like such an idiot...

Yeah, I hate those vast left-wing conspiracies. You know it's one because only the right wing has grassroots supporters dedicated enough to show up of their own volition at opposing parties' rallies.

Desperate parties fling the most crud while trying to stay afloat in the electoral quicksand. For years and years it's been the Conservatives flinging the mud, and now it's also the Liberals. So?

Voters can see through it. I remember the TV spot that got Chretien elected the first time around, back in '93. It was sponsored by the Conservative party. It featured images of Chretien's face designed to show off the childhood damage he suffered to it, with a voiceover saying things like "is this who you want leading Canada?" and that sort of nonsense.

[Penholdstaff2k4]

Notice how the Liberals are the only party who hasn't had one of their gatherings crashed by another party's member?

It's pure desperation... The Liberals know they are only 1% ahead of the CPC now... They are panicking...


go to www.liberal.ca and look under youth liberals they basically try and get youths to go out in the community to convert as many as they can! how desperate!!

[offguard96]

go to www.liberal.ca and look under youth liberals they basically try and get youths to go out in the community to convert as many as they can! how desperate!!

It's been there for years. What better way to make youth feel involved than to get them involved? It's not desperation, it's shrewd politicking.

[The Blue Tory]

not really... there's always been youth programs... my dad was in the YPC's 30 years ago with people like Tony Clement and other big name Conservatives

[Whiff]

Here in NL we have the YPC, Young Liberals, and young ND. There is also PC MUN (Memorial University of Newfoundland). There are a number of party youth group affiliats.

[Engie]

I wish they put the election date about four moths later then I could vote!!!!

[Ching]

Me too! :mad:

[SuNGoddeSS]

go to www.liberal.ca and look under youth liberals they basically try and get youths to go out in the community to convert as many as they can! how desperate!!

*Just using this post to make a point*
I find it amusing that you point out that the liberals are desperate by having a "liberal Youth" link.

In British Columbia, there is the BC Coservative Youth, and like Whiff said, there's Youth "parties" there as well.

So before any of you jump to conclusions about any detail (how minor or major it may be) get the facts, spare us all of the un-educated incorrect posts.

[SuNGoddeSS]

Now that I have completely read this thread...

There are several things I would like to bring to the table, as general discussion points.

1. Youth groups supporting political parties have been around for ages, what do you think of their effectiveness?

2. The Liberal Leadership Scandal has been in the headlines for quite some time now, and people have completely blamed Paul Martin for the scandal happening. DO you agree with the accusation?

3. The newly formed Conservatives are taking heat for many things, gay rights, abortion rights, etc. They are also taking heat from Local Mayors. Some of your mayors, some of your expanded family mayors, some of your friends mayors. Do you think that your own community leaders have the right to bring their issues to the table against the conservatives.

4. The New Democrats are taking heat from older generations for being the partiers party. The New Democrats want more youth involvement. For those of you involved with the discussion, are you members of a youth organization supporting a party, or are you anti-youth group, or just don't care?

5. The Bloc - Quebecois have faced a major hardship of being mainly Quebec and Eastern Canada based. How can they gain more exposure to the rest of Canada, where a large number of voters are?

6. There are other parties in Canada. In Fact, I still see posted signs of a "new" and "improved" Progressive Conservative party that is not attatched to the merged party. How do you feel about the possibility of another Progressive Conservative party in Canada?

[Lance]

With his attack ads, and every speech attack the Conservatives, as well not to mention the cabinet ministers crashing other parties' candidates campaign stops... Is the campaign being run dirty or is he just playing the game?

Give it a rest Tak, gosh, we all know you dont like Liberals, youre just goin off about it now though...

[The Blue Tory]

Give it a rest Tak, gosh, we all know you dont like Liberals, youre just goin off about it now though...
that was posted how long ago now...