Smoking on campus

[jgoguen]

So there's a new ad-hoc committee down here at UNB Fredericton, and their goal is to determine the feasibility of making the campus completely smoke-free. If they come out with a positive result, keeping in mind that the university president has gone on public record saying he strongly supports a smoke-free campus, they're going to be responsible for implementing a plan to go smoke-free. However, there was a presentation by the Canadian Cancer Society, and all but 3 or 4 people in attendance were members of this committee. It seems as though it's going to be a long time before anything actually comes out of this group, and there's a few of us who'd like to try to speed things up. That's where all you fine student-type people come in. Out of all the campuses everyone gets learned at, are there any that are already smoke-free? Any that are looking at a similar idea? If there are any smoke-free campuses, what makes it work and what problems do you see with it? Does it work at all?

For the rest of us all with no such policy, what do you think would make such a plan work? What would be the biggest hinderance to its success? For any of you that do smoke, what would make you accept something like this? What would make something like this work from your point of view? Would it be better for you guys to have designated smoking areas far out of sight of non-smokers instead of saying you can't smoke at all on a campus?

Should there be student input? How much? Should students have equal vote to any faculty/staff in making these decisions, or should the students simply be an advisory or lobbying group and little more?

And a last bit...the president supposedly is able to make decisions without a majority vote when there is a proven threat to the students, faculty, or staff on the campus. Does this include the ability to say that since smoking is a proven deadly threat to the health of not only the smoker but to everyone around him/her, a zero smoking policy will become immediately effective?

Lots of questions I know, but I'm looking to speed up things a little for this committee, regardless of what the final decision is. The way it currently sits is that no smoking is permitted within a 10m radius of any building, window, ventilation, or air intake vent. Campus security is not permitted to say anything, that's left to the faculties responsible for each building. The main problem here is that none of the faculty/staff are willing to go out and police the buildings, and the ones that do are actually going out to have their smoke break. Not even the dean of engineering, who has publicly said he's a non-smoker and supports a smoke-free campus, refuses to do anything to stop people from violating this rule despite that this is his responsibility, and the administration is none too eager to do anything about it. In general, not one student smoker respects the current regulations, and very few faculty/staff smokers are any better, primarily because there's no motivation for them to care.

So...ideas? :)

[Trev]

What is the goal of the policy? Most (non)smoking policies have as their goal that non-smokers should not be forced to breath in second hand smoke. Or is the goal to force everyone on campus to quit smoking? I would think you could probably be quite successful in accomplishing the first goal, and probably unable to accomplish the second one.

The rule at your school is that there is no smoking within 10m of any building, correct? Is that just the entrances to the buildings, or the entire building? And from what I gather, that rule is not being abided by.

I can honestly understand why the academic staff of the university do not feel inclined to enforce the regulation. It really isn't their job. Their duties are teaching and research.

My overall feeling would be to enforce the existing policy before determining whether it is satisfactory. You mentioned campus security isn't allowed to say anything? Why not? Give them that authority, and put some teeth behind them in enforcing it. A polite reminder to move, and if the individual blows them off, or repeatedly violates the rules, then a fine or some such. That would seem measured and appropriate. Donate the money from fines to the Canadian Cancer Society or something, even.

Without knowing how the governance structure of your university is set up, I can only speculate, but in all likelihood student approval would not be required for any change in policy.

[wb256]

I think that's a horrible idea. Despite the fact that smoking is awful for you...cigarette smokers are people too. Denying so many people a crutch for relaxation before a final exam, the stress of staying up all night in a cartography lab trying to make the contours on your map align properly, or the freak outs when half of your thesis gets deleted off of the computers is just plain inhumane.

Banning it from buildings, enclosed areas, near doorways, etc is great. Even better, make a few designated smoking areas throughout the campus if possible.

Just don't ban it altogether. That would be like banning coffee because of the negative effects it has on your stomach (made worse when injested during periods of high stress, like immediatly before an exam). Half the student population uses it as a crutch.

[VanZeumeren]

I remember residence at UNB when smoking was permitted. It smelled, but I was taken aback by the array of even weirder smells the tobacco smoke covered.

That said, I agree with Warren. UNB currently has a ten metres or more away from the bulidings rule. That seems to work well enough... save that there is now a major problem with cigarette butts on the ground. If anything, I'd like to see regularly spaced smoking areas with butt cans. Personally, I enjoy the occasional cigar and I don't mind walking outside out of consideration for my peers. However, telling me that I can't do something mildly malodorous in an extremely well ventilated area seems rather over the top.

I remember the last ad hoc committee at UNB. It was formed in response to a series of public exposures carried out by a local pervert on STU's campus. They were the UNBSRI (UNB Students against Rape and Intimidation) and their 15 minutes of fame were taken up by posting obnoxious red signs that said "RAPE FREE ZONE" throughout the house I lived in and upon my door. When that was done, they moved on to more important things, like monitoring the activities of George W. Bush. [/end silly diversion]

[jgoguen]

What is the goal of the policy? Most (non)smoking policies have as their goal that non-smokers should not be forced to breath in second hand smoke. Or is the goal to force everyone on campus to quit smoking? I would think you could probably be quite successful in accomplishing the first goal, and probably unable to accomplish the second one.
I agree with you there. The committee, as far as I know, hasn't yet decided on one goal or the other. I would be perfectly happy with the former, and from the general student reaction when there was an opinion survey for the current regulations, so would about 70% of UNB students. That figure includes smokers, but I don't know what percentage of students here smoke or how many smokers said such a policy would be a good idea. The president hasn't explicitly sided one way or the other, but I get a distinct impression that he would like to see the latter. I doubt he'll do anything to influence the committee either way though, he seems to be a fairly honourable man from what I've heard about him from others who have dealt with him.


The rule at your school is that there is no smoking within 10m of any building, correct? Is that just the entrances to the buildings, or the entire building? And from what I gather, that rule is not being abided by.
Dead on. The 10m radius is from any part of any building or any air intake/outtake and any door, whichever is furthest. And yes, there are actually air intakes in a few places that would make a significant difference in the distance a smoker would have to go. The disregard for the rule is as bad as smokers actually moving in such a way that for a non-smoker to walk around them would require going to a totally different part of the building to go in. The main entrance is at the bottom of a hill, and for people like me who come in from above that point it's not so bad to just walk in, but there are other people who come from further down the hill who reportedly can smell the smokers before they can see them. When there is wind around that area, it usually blows towards the building, not really up or down the hill very much. I know I'm rather sensitive to smoke, and I can usually smell if someone is smoking before I get past the first of 3 entrances. The smokers congregate around the third entrance, which sees more traffic than the other 2 combined.

Something I forgot to mention is that the current regulations state that a smokers are not permitted to place themselves in such a way as to cause unnecessary inconvienience to non-smokers and must move to a different area if requested unless the request is obviously unreasonable. It's ok to ask a smoker if they would move away from the doors or stairs, as those are well within the 10m radius, but it's not ok to ask a smoker to move beyond the 10m radius or to leave areas where there is no building, etc. within 10m. I have yet to hear of one smoker who has given any positive or mature response to such a request. In general, the closer they are to the building the less likely they are to care what a non-smoker thinks.


I can honestly understand why the academic staff of the university do not feel inclined to enforce the regulation. It really isn't their job. Their duties are teaching and research.
Agreed. I asked about why security wasn't allowed to say anything, and the best answer I could get out of anyone was "PR reasons".


My overall feeling would be to enforce the existing policy before determining whether it is satisfactory.
...
A polite reminder to move, and if the individual blows them off, or repeatedly violates the rules, then a fine or some such. That would seem measured and appropriate. Donate the money from fines to the Canadian Cancer Society or something, even.
A good idea, I never thought of that. It would certainly do something for the university's image. I'll mention that next time I'm talking with one of the committee members :)


Without knowing how the governance structure of your university is set up, I can only speculate, but in all likelihood student approval would not be required for any change in policy.
Currently the only student body that has any vote in anything is the student union, and I'm not sure if there's anything the administration actually has to pay any attention to them for. Students are involved in a number of other boards, but they're lobbyists at best.

[jgoguen]

Well Grant, I completely missed your post. I'm so observant at 1am :)


I remember residence at UNB when smoking was permitted. It smelled, but I was taken aback by the array of even weirder smells the tobacco smoke covered.
I've never been in Aitken House before, have these other smells died down since smoking was banned in residence? I've lived in Jones and Harrison, and I've never noticed any strange smells. Well...except for during excessivly rowdy periods of certain nights when various liquids were being mixed in strange combinations...


That said, I agree with Warren. UNB currently has a ten metres or more away from the bulidings rule. That seems to work well enough... save that there is now a major problem with cigarette butts on the ground. If anything, I'd like to see regularly spaced smoking areas with butt cans.
It seems to me that's almost what they're going for, except that there's not many butt cans. Do you think the current regulations would work better if there were more cans so that people could actually get near one without walking on top of half the other people in the same area? I imagine there will still be some idiots that insist on standing almost inside the building (ok, maybe not that bad) but do you think it would be a significant improvement over the current situation? Also, as I've said and I'm sure you're aware, a non-smoker has the right to ask a smoker to move elsewhere so long as the request is reasonable, but I've heard of few smokers actually doing so and I've seen none. What do you think about having campus security be able to ask smokers to move, and if they don't move and/or it's consistent enough that security can identify specific people as being "troublesome" about this fines are issued? Or some improvement on that idea. Nothing like students calling and tattling to security when someone doesn't move, but when security's driving/walking around and sees smokers obviously too close. Like we've agreed here and like I said to UNB Health & Safety, the committee, and to security personnel I've spoken to, the professors are there to teach, not to tell smokers they're standing 0.124322452 meters too close to the building/door/whatever.


Personally, I enjoy the occasional cigar and I don't mind walking outside out of consideration for my peers. However, telling me that I can't do something mildly malodorous in an extremely well ventilated area seems rather over the top.
I'll give you that for sure. Here's one thing that just occured to me, and you might have a better insight to feasibility. People seem to like to sit on the benches immediately outside Tilley Hall and smoke. If there were butt cans up near where the stone bench is, do you think that would be acceptable for most people? If UNB puts in a new bench there, that should give everyone a place to sit, my only concern is the winter when it would be rather difficult to wade through the snow to get there. Any ideas to improve on that, or alternate sites reasonably close but still at least 10m away that still gives students that place to sit?

I remember the last ad hoc committee at UNB. It was formed in response to a series of public exposures carried out by a local pervert on STU's campus. They were the UNBSRI (UNB Students against Rape and Intimidation) and their 15 minutes of fame were taken up by posting obnoxious red signs that said "RAPE FREE ZONE" throughout the house I lived in and upon my door. When that was done, they moved on to more important things, like monitoring the activities of George W. Bush. [/end silly diversion][/QUOTE]

[jgoguen]

Well Grant, I completely missed your post. I'm so observant at 1am :)


I remember residence at UNB when smoking was permitted. It smelled, but I was taken aback by the array of even weirder smells the tobacco smoke covered.
I've never been in Aitken House before, have these other smells died down since smoking was banned in residence? I've lived in Jones and Harrison, and I've never noticed any strange smells. Well...except for during excessivly rowdy periods of certain nights when various liquids were being mixed in strange combinations...


That said, I agree with Warren. UNB currently has a ten metres or more away from the bulidings rule. That seems to work well enough... save that there is now a major problem with cigarette butts on the ground. If anything, I'd like to see regularly spaced smoking areas with butt cans.
It seems to me that's almost what they're going for, except that there's not many butt cans. Do you think the current regulations would work better if there were more cans so that people could actually get near one without walking on top of half the other people in the same area? I imagine there will still be some idiots that insist on standing almost inside the building (ok, maybe not that bad) but do you think it would be a significant improvement over the current situation? Also, as I've said and I'm sure you're aware, a non-smoker has the right to ask a smoker to move elsewhere so long as the request is reasonable, but I've heard of few smokers actually doing so and I've seen none. What do you think about having campus security be able to ask smokers to move, and if they don't move and/or it's consistent enough that security can identify specific people as being "troublesome" about this fines are issued? Or some improvement on that idea. Nothing like students calling and tattling to security when someone doesn't move, but when security's driving/walking around and sees smokers obviously too close. Like we've agreed here and like I said to UNB Health & Safety, the committee, and to security personnel I've spoken to, the professors are there to teach, not to tell smokers they're standing 0.124322452 meters too close to the building/door/whatever.


Personally, I enjoy the occasional cigar and I don't mind walking outside out of consideration for my peers. However, telling me that I can't do something mildly malodorous in an extremely well ventilated area seems rather over the top.
I'll give you that for sure. Here's one thing that just occured to me, and you might have a better insight to feasibility. People seem to like to sit on the benches immediately outside Tilley Hall and smoke. If there were butt cans up near where the stone bench is, do you think that would be acceptable for most people? If UNB puts in a new bench there, that should give everyone a place to sit, my only concern is the winter when it would be rather difficult to wade through the snow to get there. Any ideas to improve on that, or alternate sites reasonably close but still at least 10m away that still gives students that place to sit?

I remember the last ad hoc committee at UNB. It was formed in response to a series of public exposures carried out by a local pervert on STU's campus. They were the UNBSRI (UNB Students against Rape and Intimidation) and their 15 minutes of fame were taken up by posting obnoxious red signs that said "RAPE FREE ZONE" throughout the house I lived in and upon my door. When that was done, they moved on to more important things, like monitoring the activities of George W. Bush. [/end silly diversion][/QUOTE]

[VanZeumeren]

It seems to me that's almost what they're going for, except that there's not many butt cans. Do you think the current regulations would work better if there were more cans so that people could actually get near one without walking on top of half the other people in the same area? I imagine there will still be some idiots that insist on standing almost inside the building (ok, maybe not that bad) but do you think it would be a significant improvement over the current situation? Also, as I've said and I'm sure you're aware, a non-smoker has the right to ask a smoker to move elsewhere so long as the request is reasonable, but I've heard of few smokers actually doing so and I've seen none. What do you think about having campus security be able to ask smokers to move, and if they don't move and/or it's consistent enough that security can identify specific people as being "troublesome" about this fines are issued? Or some improvement on that idea. Nothing like students calling and tattling to security when someone doesn't move, but when security's driving/walking around and sees smokers obviously too close. Like we've agreed here and like I said to UNB Health & Safety, the committee, and to security personnel I've spoken to, the professors are there to teach, not to tell smokers they're standing 0.124322452 meters too close to the building/door/whatever.

I'll give you that for sure. Here's one thing that just occured to me, and you might have a better insight to feasibility. People seem to like to sit on the benches immediately outside Tilley Hall and smoke. If there were butt cans up near where the stone bench is, do you think that would be acceptable for most people? If UNB puts in a new bench there, that should give everyone a place to sit, my only concern is the winter when it would be rather difficult to wade through the snow to get there. Any ideas to improve on that, or alternate sites reasonably close but still at least 10m away that still gives students that place to sit?


The problem of odd odours has merely sprouted a new skin. Instead of cigarette smoke covering everything, we now have the acrid fumes of incense, febreeze and lord knows what else floating about to mask the smell of stale air, hockey gear and farts. I was a butcher at one point and I have no sense of smell to speak of, so I was never overly bothered.

I like the idea of designated smoking areas for people to smoke in. However, I think that they should correspond with the areas already heavily in use (easy to figure out... look at where most of the butts are). People are creatures of habit and by strategically placing such zones we could easily place butt-cans and make a smooth transition that makes eveyone happy.

Such projects are useful if fo no other reason than it provides UNB with more benches and pleasant little areas to meet. We have the prettiest campus in Canada (except for the walkways... uggh) and it can only get better by getting rid of all those smoker-leavings. If we paved up the smoking zones, it is entirely possible to get them plowed out in winter and make everything kosher.

Like I said, I smoke cigars sometimes but I have the decency to remove myself from other people before doing so. If you are smoking and are asked (reasonably) to move away, you ought to for no other reason than common courtesy. Therefore, I have no qualms with problem individuals being fined or asked to leave by campus security.

[Cheryl Tucker]

All I have to say is I support "smoke-free" anything. Only problem is... now all the UNB smokers willjust go up the road and pass thier second hand smoke around up at STU. And because of that.. I say I dont want this to pass unless the same happens at STU because having to live around a lot of smokers is bad enough let alone the influx of smokers who will just walk up the road and add to the problem at STU.

[QGunner]

The rule at SAIT is within 10 metres of entrances....and there are black lines painted 10 metres from entrances, so it's easy to eenforce....although, at rez, you walk 3 feet, light up, and blow the smoke into the lungs of the non-smokers walking in or out(that pisses me off)

[Bright Eyes]

The problem of odd odours has merely sprouted a new skin. Instead of cigarette smoke covering everything, we now have the acrid fumes of incense, febreeze and lord knows what else floating about to mask the smell of stale air, hockey gear and farts.
The monitors always knew someone was up to something when the hallway smelled like incense. It wasn't usually covering up the smell of your gym bag. ;)

I would have to say that the smell of old leftover beer in the hallway from all the empty bottles was worse than the smoke. But that was just my residence. I think there is more worthwhile things to complain about than people smoking outdoors. Watch where the most stuff gets left on the ground and put a can there. Simple as that.

Telling people not to smoke outdoors would be like telling people not to pee in a pool. The ones that really want to will do it anyway, and even if they do you won't be able to notice.